I do want conservatives on here

ZenMode said:
There's something to be said for not being able to disavow such a ridiculous premise at face value., regardless if not one illegal, incarcerated transgender prisoner ever gets a taxpayer-funded sex change operation.
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Two things. It's a Trump era law and the courts forced compliance in the two cases that had happened through last year after numerous challenges. Iow, it's not unconstitutional and it's hardly a drain on the system.
 
CFordUNC said:
Lol. I ain't checking anyone's posting history, man. I literally could not care less about how often someone does or doesn't post. My point was in responding to another poster who was laughing at y'all for acting like you "don't care" or are somehow above the fray of caring about politics.

Oh, and I didn't "take a break from politics" or "from the noise here." The end of the calendar year is the busiest time of the year for me professionally. Coupled with working to put a house on the market in one city, looking to buy or build in another city, and just generally spending time with family over the holidays, I just didn't have the inclination to post. I still read most every day. It's not like Donald Trump winning an election was somehow some impetus for my not posting here on the ZZLP for a month in December. You must not know me well enough if you think that the outcome of an election in either direction negatively impacts my mental or emotional well-being, or if you think that a friggin' internet message board is something that I take seriously enough to "need a break from the noise."
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Fair enough. I still maintain that taking a break from posting like the one you took after the election is healthy for all of us from time to time, no matter what causes it in each specific case (busy life in your case, Trump fatigue or paranoia for others, or whatever else). Politics is a fun hobby and some here like it far more than I do even, but it’s also super toxic. Of all times to take a break, I bet there are many more who took a break from reading and/or posting right after the election just like you and I both did. There’s a void of political stuff to talk about when elections are over.

Point being, there are plenty of people here who don’t read the board every day or even close to it, especially now that it isn’t attached to IC (which I admittedly do legitimately read every day). So just because me or callatoroy or other conservatives don’t come on here to condemn Trump every time Trump farts in church or something, it might be true that we just don’t know or care about the fart.
 
ChileG said:
We are still awaiting for you to name one on the other thread.
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It's quite literally the thread that holds my greatest interest. So far, we've essentially seen some mild cheering for the revanchist and grift intending DOGE disaster.
 
Healing said:
It's quite literally the thread that holds my greatest interest. So far, we've essentially seen some mild cheering for the revanchist and grift intending DOGE disaster.
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Yeah, I’m not going to let these guys claim non-existent victories like they did during Trump 1.0.
Remember the “China agreed to buy hundreds of billions of soy beans from us because of Trump!!!” That it never happened (as predicted by anyone with a brain) didn’t stop them from claiming a victory. No more giving Trump credit just because he claims something will happen in the future.
Likewise, I won’t give him an L for things I think will result in disaster until the disaster actually happens.
 
ChileG said:
Likewise, I won’t give him an L for things I think will result in disaster until the disaster actually happens.
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I can respect that, while also believing the political environment and track record of ttump, miller, heritage, musk, etc are far past the benefit of the doubt stage.
 
ZenMode said:
There's something to be said for not being able to disavow such a ridiculous premise at face value., regardless if not one illegal, incarcerated transgender prisoner ever gets a taxpayer-funded sex change operation.
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What other medical rights do we strip from prisoners? If someone goes to jail are they no longer human and should they no longer have their medical needs addressed?

The bigger picture is we should stop targeting LBGTQ people to marginllize and deny rights. This needs to be looked at from an equality and medical stand point. When a person becomes a prisioner they do lose some rights as a condition of their incarceration. The question here is which medical rights should they lose?

People who are clearly against LBGTQ rights want to focus on a specific case or procedure, but this shouldn't be that granular. It should encompass all medical rights of prisoners. Do the maintain or lose medical rights as a condition of their incarceration.
 
HeelYeah2012 said:
There’s more to it than margin of victory. Trump won the popular vote narrowly but who really cares about the popular vote other than liberals who try to bemoan our electoral college. He won every single state that was up for grabs heading into the election and made gains in quite literally almost every single demographic. And he won the election in the face of tons of unique factors - everything from having the DOJ weaponized against him to having the Dems pull an undemocratic bait & switch halfway through the campaign when Biden’s dementia was exposed.

If you want to say it is wasn’t a blowout by margin of victory that’s fine. But Trump still kicked Harris’ ass. As an analogy, NC state hasn’t blown UNC football out by huge margins many times lately (they did once), but I would still say we’ve been getting our ass kicked by them because they’ve consistently beat us in a high stakes game that we all hate losing so much.
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This is a completely ahistorical take. Basically what you are saying is that you thought the swing states would split and they didn’t so it is an ass kicking. That is not what kick ass means.

Look at all those elections I cited. The electoral vote counts weren’t close in the vast majority of them. Many of them had 400 and some even had 500. Those were ass kickings.

The idea that he gained in every demographic makes it an ass kicking? C’mon. That happens in virtually every election. Votes are correlated. Reagan gained in every demographic over Carter. Obama gained in every demographic over Bush. Trump 1 gained in every demographic over Obama. That is how elections work.

Trump was handicapped by the prosecutions? Cmon. You know as well as I that Trump jumped 10% in the Republican polling the second he was indicted in New York. Those prosecutions gave him the Republican nomination on a silver platter. Trump had zero handicap.

This really is one of your dumber takes and that is saying something.
 
UNCatTech said:
What other medical rights do we strip from prisoners? If someone goes to jail are they no longer human and should they no longer have their medical needs addressed?

The bigger picture is we should stop targeting LBGTQ people to marginllize and deny rights. This needs to be looked at from an equality and medical stand point. When a person becomes a prisioner they do lose some rights as a condition of their incarceration. The question here is which medical rights should they lose?

People who are clearly against LBGTQ rights want to focus on a specific case or procedure, but this shouldn't be that granular. It should encompass all medical rights of prisoners. Do the maintain or lose medical rights as a condition of their incarceration.
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If a prisoner is ill or injured, they deserve all of the medical treatment needed to treat the issue. Sex change surgery isn't treating an illness or injury. It's an elective surgery to make them more comfortable in their body.
 
ZenMode said:
If a prisoner is ill or injured, they deserve all of the medical treatment needed to treat the issue. Sex change surgery isn't treating an illness or injury. It's an elective surgery to make them more comfortable in their body.
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It can be argued that it is not elective. If it is needed for the better of a person's life.

But why pretend this is about prisoners trump is already going after every Trans person.

Just admit you are like those maga folks that see trans people as an abomination that should be eradicated from the earth. Thats where this is heading. It's not simply about medical rights, as it should be.

We'll just wait for some of your medical rights to be trampled on and see if you are ok with it.

Party of less government and freedom my ass.
 
I myself took a break from news, politics and this board after the election (though I don't post often so I wasn't missed)... it was much better for my overall well-being. Now I'm back in the cycle of reading and vacillating between outrage and despair, to no good end. I'm going to have to put some limits around it all.

One thing that shows up from time to time on this board is this idea that politics is not that different than a sports game and that it doesn't affect your everyday life. This just isn't true. The policies that are made on a local, state and federal level affect everything about our lives. That includes access to healthcare, clean air and water, education for our children, protection of civil liberties etc. Policies affect our transportation, our taxation, our access to emergency services, the cost of food and goods... I could go on and on. Let me just give you a few examples about my life. The local Raleigh city council passed new zoning laws in the past few years that have made it possible for a 12 unit, 3-story condo building to be built across the street from my house. This will vastly increase the traffic on my street (making it less safe) and my overall home value will decrease. State-wide elections determine how much my husband gets paid, and should the general assembly decide to do so, they could effectively eliminate his university job. Nationally, should Trump decide to take a sledgehammer to the VA system, my job could also be eliminated in the next year or two. I am in my 50s and I have little confidence that I will get SS benefits when I get to retirement age if republican lawmakers have their way. None of this is in my control and all of it is decided by our elected officials. While you might not see how policies directly impact *you* today, at some point they will, for good or for ill. This is not a game folks.

Also, I just wanted to share an extreme example -- I had a conversation yesterday with a black female veteran who has scheduled a hysterectomy for next month. She told me, "I've been in countries where they lost everything quickly. I've seen what happens. I can't get pregnant again." Mind you, this woman is not in a relationship. She has seen how societies devolve when under duress, and how women get raped in war. It's happening now in different countries across the globe (see Congo, for example). She feels particularly vulnerable as a minority in today's climate. She does have some mental health issues that ramp up her feelings of paranoia, and other gynecological issues that play into her decision, but the point stands... no one has a significant elective surgery based on the outcome of a sports game.
 
UNCatTech said:
It can be argued that it is not elective. If it is needed for the better of a person's life.

But why pretend this is about prisoners trump is already going after every Trans person.

Just admit you are like those maga folks that see trans people as an abomination that should be eradicated from the earth. Thats where this is heading. It's not simply about medical rights, as it should be.

We'll just wait for some of your medical rights to be trampled on and see if you are ok with it.

Party of less government and freedom my ass.
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Sure it can be argued and I'm sure there is a portion of the country who believe any medical procedure, up to an including boob jobs, should be covered by insurance or paid for by the government under the guise of "for the better of a person's life". I'd disagree with that.

"Just admit you are like those maga folks that see trans people as an abomination that should be eradicated from the earth."

No need to get all hyperbolic. As I said here, I believe that trans people are people and deserve the same rights as any of us. We don't have a right to sex change operations and I don't believe prisoners, much less those who are here illegally, have a right to a sex change operation funded by taxpayers.
 
tallheel95 said:
I myself took a break from news, politics and this board after the election (though I don't post often so I wasn't missed)... it was much better for my overall well-being. Now I'm back in the cycle of reading and vacillating between outrage and despair, to no good end. I'm going to have to put some limits around it all.

One thing that shows up from time to time on this board is this idea that politics is not that different than a sports game and that it doesn't affect your everyday life. This just isn't true. The policies that are made on a local, state and federal level affect everything about our lives. That includes access to healthcare, clean air and water, education for our children, protection of civil liberties etc. Policies affect our transportation, our taxation, our access to emergency services, the cost of food and goods... I could go on and on. Let me just give you a few examples about my life. The local Raleigh city council passed new zoning laws in the past few years that have made it possible for a 12 unit, 3-story condo building to be built across the street from my house. This will vastly increase the traffic on my street (making it less safe) and my overall home value will decrease. State-wide elections determine how much my husband gets paid, and should the general assembly decide to do so, they could effectively eliminate his university job. Nationally, should Trump decide to take a sledgehammer to the VA system, my job could also be eliminated in the next year or two. I am in my 50s and I have little confidence that I will get SS benefits when I get to retirement age if republican lawmakers have their way. None of this is in my control and all of it is decided by our elected officials. While you might not see how policies directly impact *you* today, at some point they will, for good or for ill. This is not a game folks.

Also, I just wanted to share an extreme example -- I had a conversation yesterday with a black female veteran who has scheduled a hysterectomy for next month. She told me, "I've been in countries where they lost everything quickly. I've seen what happens. I can't get pregnant again." Mind you, this woman is not in a relationship. She has seen how societies devolve when under duress, and how women get raped in war. It's happening now in different countries across the globe (see Congo, for example). She feels particularly vulnerable as a minority in today's climate. She does have some mental health issues that ramp up her feelings of paranoia, and other gynecological issues that play into her decision, but the point stands... no one has a significant elective surgery based on the outcome of a sports game.
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well said.

the people on this board who yap about how politics doesn't affect their daily lives are privileged ignoramuses who sorely lack critical thinking skills and empathy.
 
UNCMSinLS said:
Conservatives - Yes.
MAGA - Nope

Unfortunately, many/most conservatives have morphed into MAGA. I doubt the few remaining REAL conservatives on The Bulwark will post here.
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For me, it's yep and yep.

I don't want to exclude anyone's point of view, I'm interested in all of them.

Even the most ignorant and lame, I'm curious to hear them.
 
In the 1980’s, a Poli Sci professor at NC State, Abe Holtzman, began each semester of Introductory Poli Sci with questions about what did government do for you (the students in the class) today?

Invariably, several students said, “Nothing.” Professor Holtzman would then ask questions such as, “Did you brush your teeth this morning?” “Take a shower?” “Use a toilet?” “Do you live on campus?” “If you’re off campus, how did you get here?”

The entire first day was spent making a bunch of 18-24 year-olds realize that they ARE dependent on governmental services on a daily basis.
 
TarSpiel said:
For me, it's yep and yep.

I don't want to exclude anyone's point of view, I'm interested in all of them.

Even the most ignorant and lame, I'm curious to hear them.
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Understood. But, I get all manner of "ignorant and lame" points of view in everyday life. I'd like my information consumption on this board to be a little more than MAGA spin. It usually is but occasionally Super Ignore is necessary when the chuds get frisky.
 
ZenMode said:
Sure it can be argued and I'm sure there is a portion of the country who believe any medical procedure, up to an including boob jobs, should be covered by insurance or paid for by the government under the guise of "for the better of a person's life". I'd disagree with that.

"Just admit you are like those maga folks that see trans people as an abomination that should be eradicated from the earth."

No need to get all hyperbolic. As I said here, I believe that trans people are people and deserve the same rights as any of us. We don't have a right to sex change operations and I don't believe prisoners, much less those who are here illegally, have a right to a sex change operation funded by taxpayers.
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Haha. Boob jobs can already be covered if medically necessary for the person.

A relative had a double mastectomy, her insurance covered the implants after.

My insurance covered a vasectomy reversal, which could probably be argued as not necessary since the original vasectomy was a choice.

Oh, and you do have the right to a sex change operation, you just don't see the need, if you were trans you would see the need.

And stop trying to make this simple about prisoners when all trans people are currently under attack. Trump doesn't want anyone having any type of therapy or operation, even if they pay cash with their own money.
 
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