I do want conservatives on here

[4thgenheel]

I am never in favor of outright banning based on ideology. Excessive baiting/trolling for the sake of riling people up? Sure, that's something to police. But no virtual space ever improved by simply banning dissenting viewpoints, even incredibly stupid and destructive ones.

agreed. there are several maga and maga adjacent folks on here whose viewpoints i mostly find loathsome but they don't bait/troll and usually will engage in some form of discussion.

there are a few others who are clearly only here to bait/troll. namely silence dipshit, who i cannot fathom why the mods continue to let post on this board. then of course there's also the unhinged person who creates a new account every other day.

 

[TarSpiel]

I've seen it happen often that people label those with views they disagree with as "trolling." It's like some kind of coping mechanism or something. The word is used *way* too often IMO.

 

[hedge]

He has before. Not sure if he does anymore. But yes, he used to.
He uses the late Val Kilmer's winking image from "Tombstone" as his badge on this board

I had a couple of nice PM exchanges with Max. Good dude, wish he would come back and post in here...

 

[4thgenheel]

I've seen it happen often that people label those with views they disagree with as "trolling." It's like some kind of coping mechanism or something. The word is used *way* too often IMO.

i only think that it applies to one regular poster on this board. their posts are almost exclusively outright lies and distortions from propaganda social media accounts. their behavior and posting style/habits fit the definition of trolling to a T.

 

[ZenMode]

I've seen it happen often that people label those with views they disagree with as "trolling." It's like some kind of coping mechanism or something. The word is used *way* too often IMO.

Absolutely. People often become so convinced that their opinion is "right" that it becomes unimaginable to think otherwise and anyone who does think differently just has to be trolling.

A lot of that is the result, IMO, of confirmation bias.

 

[TarSpiel]

i only think that it applies to one regular poster on this board. their posts are almost exclusively outright lies and distortions from propaganda social media accounts. their behavior and posting style/habits fit the definition of trolling to a T.

Sure, but how do you distinguish someone who is a troll from someone who is simply a moron?

 

[finesse]

Sure, but how do you distinguish someone who is a troll from someone who is simply a moron?

Treat the symptoms, not the person.

 

[4thgenheel]

Sure, but how do you distinguish someone who is a troll from someone who is simply a moron?

well, we have a lot of morons who don't troll.

 

[superrific]

I am never in favor of outright banning based on ideology. Excessive baiting/trolling for the sake of riling people up? Sure, that's something to police. But no virtual space ever improved by simply banning dissenting viewpoints, even incredibly stupid and destructive ones.

I'm not sure the German people would agree with you. I don't think it's a coincidence that the internet hate-o-sphere emerged at the same time as the resurgence of neo-Nazi activity in the past decade.

And I also think that most virtual spaces would be made worse by people posting shit like, "slavery was a good thing," or "Hitler was right."

 

[EyeballKid]

Not sure where to put this—if mods or anyone can think of a better thread, I’m all for moving it:

I just recently watched this documentary on Netflix. Strangely, despite having nothing explicitly to do with politics, this flick more than anything else encapsulates the problem with trying to communicate with MAGA folks.

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www.netflix.com

Short synopsis of the flick is that a mob boss in Connecticut bought a minor league hockey team, brought them to New Haven, all for his 17-yr old son to manage.

Son (with mob bosses connections and blessing) fills the roster with goons, Slap Shot style. The team does well, and of course becomes infamous because of their goonery and violence.

The part that struck me most was how the blue-collar locals LOVED the team, loved the violence, loved the mobbed-up culture. They sold out every game. Every single fan interviewed in the doc was absolutely a MAGA supporter. They were angry with the league for enforcing penalties against the team and owners/managers.

MAGA folks root for the bad guys in movies. They love the attention they get by thumbing their noses at the rules and the “experts”. You can’t talk reason with them because they don’t give a shit about reasoning.

 

[TarSpiel]

I don't think it's a coincidence that the internet hate-o-sphere emerged at the same time as the resurgence of neo-Nazi activity in the past decade.

Internet forums are just toxic in their very essence IMO. What we lack here (tone of voice, body language, give-and-take in conversation pacing, on the fly clarification, etc) is the stuff that keeps communication healthy. Sports boards are every bit as nasty and toxic as politics boards, sans any political ideology at all.

 

[TarSpiel]

MAGA folks root for the bad guys in movies. They love the attention they get by thumbing their noses at the rules and the “experts”. You can’t talk reason with them because they don’t give a shit about reasoning.

The thing about MAGA that is most interesting to me is that it's not limited to America. There are exactly this same type of political mobs in Hungary, Brazil, Philippines, India, France, Italy, the Middle East, Russia....you name it. IMO you can't understand MAGA without having some sort of sense of the global right-wing retrenchment that it is *one* instance of.

 

[Centerpiece]

The thing about MAGA that is most interesting to me is that it's not limited to America. There are exactly this same type of political mobs in Hungary, Brazil, Philippines, India, France, Italy, the Middle East, Russia....you name it. IMO you can't understand MAGA without having some sort of sense of the global right-wing retrenchment that it is *one* instance of.

Sort of a human condition thing. It all ties together with the mob/thug hockey team mentality. The global right-wing simply lacks the ability to empathize with “the other”. They like their red meat, they like their “strong man”. They like their leaders to be like John Wayne toilet paper.

The very much dislike weaker, less-than, effeminate types. Soyboys, tree huggers, Green anything. They like to kill other things. Period. They like to kill. Whether or not they need to kill in order to eat and survive, they just want to kill stuff even if just for sport. If they see a turtle trying to cross the road, they don’t swerve their car (I should say truck) to miss it. And they certainly wouldn’t stop their vehicle to help the little guy across the road… no. On the contrary, they’re more apt to purposefully run over the poor guy…. And they would actually get their rocks off doing it.

These humans who lack the ability to empathize with any other living creature - human or otherwise - tend to be hard-right. They like their authoritarian dictators. They like their Taliban. They like their religion to be “stronger than yours”. They easily justify, killing, slavery, oppression of women and people of color as their God - given right… They’re nothing more than barbarians who think might makes right.

The purpose of your thread is altruistic. The idea of having “conservatives” on this board is a nice idea. And there are some former Republicans here. There are some who admitted they voted for Trump the first time in 2016, and they’ve admitted to the error of their ways. They are indeed “conservative” in a lot of areas (fiscally if nothing else), but they’ve renounced Maga and Trumpism. Good on them. They’ve decided to be on the right side of history. Just like John Kasich, Adam Kinzinger, John McCain, Mitt Romney, Liz Cheney, etc. etc. Those I listed earlier.

Those conservatives are absolutely welcome and we should want them aboard.

But as far as Maga is concerned… be they from the States, or any of the other countries mentioned… those on the right side of history have been trying to beat back those sonsabitches for centuries. I only find them interesting in the same way a research scientist finds cancer cells “interesting”.

 

[Ramrouser]

They very much dislike weaker, less-than, effeminate types. Soyboys, tree huggers, Green anything. They like to kill other things. Period. They like to kill. Whether or not they need to kill in order to eat and survive, they just want to kill stuff even if just for sport. If they see a turtle trying to cross the road, they don’t swerve their car (I should say truck) to miss it. And they certainly wouldn’t stop their vehicle to help the little guy across the road… no. On the contrary, they’re more apt to purposefully run over the poor guy…. And they would actually get their rocks off doing it.

As an animal and pet lover, I take great offense at your accusation of MAGA as lovers of cruelty to animals. What a gross generalization and exaggeration.

I guess you'll find it ironic that the Trump Administration in its first term set goals for Federal Agencies such as FDA, NIH and EPA reducing animal testing by 30% by 2025 and full eradication of animal testing by 2035. In his second term, Trump and the agencies are moving full steam ahead and has even removed all deadlines according to a May 14, 2025 VOX article. PETA spokesman praised the Administration stating that these policies were "among the biggest news there's ever been for animals in laboratories."

 

[superrific]

I guess you'll find it ironic that the Trump Administration in its first term set goals for Federal Agencies such as FDA, NIH and EPA reducing animal testing by 30% by 2025 and full eradication of animal testing by 2035. In his second term, Trump and the agencies are moving full steam ahead and has even removed all deadlines according to a May 14, 2025 VOX article. PETA spokesman praised the Administration stating that these policies were "among the biggest news there's ever been for animals in laboratories."

No, full eradication of mammal testing. Only the FDA has committed to it.

But you understand WHY they are cutting it, right? It's not because they care about the animals. It's because they want to cripple the science. The EPA took several measures in Trump 1.0 in an attempt to kneecap scientific inquiries into toxins. This is just another step along that same path. The goal is to throw sand in as many gears as possible to slow down environmental regulations.

 

[Ramrouser]

No, full eradication of mammal testing. Only the FDA has committed to it.

But you understand WHY they are cutting it, right? It's not because they care about the animals. It's because they want to cripple the science. The EPA took several measures in Trump 1.0 in an attempt to kneecap scientific inquiries into toxins. This is just another step along that same path. The goal is to throw sand in as many gears as possible to slow down environmental regulations.

According to the Washington Times, new EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin plans to reinstate the phaseout of mammal testing (the Biden Admn reversed Trump 1.0 policy). Zeldin has a history of pushing to end animal experiments while in Congress, including an effort to end cat and dog research at the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Sounds like Zeldin and MAGA love animals! Certainly not the animal sadists Centerpiece described.

 

[akillesheel]

I guess you'll find it ironic that the Trump Administration in its first term set goals for Federal Agencies such as FDA, NIH and EPA reducing animal testing by 30% by 2025 and full eradication of animal testing by 2035. In his second term, Trump and the agencies are moving full steam ahead and has even removed all deadlines according to a May 14, 2025 VOX article. PETA spokesman praised the Administration stating that these policies were "among the biggest news there's ever been for animals in laboratories."

From the article that you're citing:
"During Trump’s first presidency, enforcement of the Animal Welfare Act, the federal law that governs the welfare of animals used in research, took a nosedive. The US Department of Agriculture (USDA), the agency tasked with implementing that law, removed thousands of animal welfare reports, which had previously been publicly posted for decades, from its website."

They do not care about the animals. They want science to stop happening.

 

[Milk and Cookies]

Sounds like Zeldin and MAGA love animals!

You might want to check facts before assuming your dear leader loves animals

1. Weakening Endangered Species Act - The Trump admin are proposing significant changes to the ESA that would great limit the ability to protect animals in the future. One notable example is reducing the scope of "harm" to protected animals to exclude destruction of habitat. They are also wanting to include economic considerations when determining if a species should be designated as endangered.

2. Increased Hunting on Public Lands - The Trump admin has opened up millions of acres of public land to sport hurting including on federal lands that were restricted national wildlife refuges. The impacts of these disruptions will hamper conservation and lead to destruction of natural ecosystems.

3. Environmental Deregulation - The admin has repeatedly rolled back environmental regulations that are leading to more polluted water and air. The expansion of fossil fuel mining is doing similar.

4. Climate Change Denialism - Removing the US from the Paris Climate Agreement and generally supporting climate change denialism will help usher in massive threats to animals by altering habitats.

5. Trophy Hunting - The Trump admin lifted bans on importing elephant and lion trophies from Africa. If you mean MAGA loves hanging dead animals on their walls maybe you have a point.

Tell me more about how MAGA loves animals

 

[superrific]

According to the Washington Times, new EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin plans to reinstate the phaseout of mammal testing (the Biden Admn reversed Trump 1.0 policy). Zeldin has a history of pushing to end animal experiments while in Congress, including an effort to end cat and dog research at the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Sounds like Zeldin and MAGA love animals! Certainly not the animal sadists Centerpiece described.

1. LOL at citing the Washington Times. Even my very conservative judge dumped on that rag.
2. It took posters like 10 minutes to return that shit to sender. Doesn't that embarrass you?

 

[Healing]

You might want to check facts before assuming your dear leader loves animals

1. Weakening Endangered Species Act - The Trump admin are proposing significant changes to the ESA that would great limit the ability to protect animals in the future. One notable example is reducing the scope of "harm" to protected animals to exclude destruction of habitat. They are also wanting to include economic considerations when determining if a species should be designated as endangered.

2. Increased Hunting on Public Lands - The Trump admin has opened up millions of acres of public land to sport hurting including on federal lands that were restricted national wildlife refuges. The impacts of these disruptions will hamper conservation and lead to destruction of natural ecosystems.

3. Environmental Deregulation - The admin has repeatedly rolled back environmental regulations that are leading to more polluted water and air. The expansion of fossil fuel mining is doing similar.

4. Climate Change Denialism - Removing the US from the Paris Climate Agreement and generally supporting climate change denialism will help usher in massive threats to animals by altering habitats.

5. Trophy Hunting - The Trump admin lifted bans on importing elephant and lion trophies from Africa. If you mean MAGA loves hanging dead animals on their walls maybe you have a point.

Tell me more about how MAGA loves animals

Good rebuttal, in a good faith discussion. For the folks actively posting and lurking who did not know these truths, I hope they find it valuable. I assure you, Ram got satisfaction from the notion of you wasting your time “debating “ him; he doesn’t care a bit for any of the presented facts or reason.

Remember, he’s a lawyer, on a site filled with lawyers, who spends the majority of his time shit posting.