I do want conservatives on here

This is old, but it fits on this thread. What follows is why I don’t care to engage with any republican or maga or conservative. They’re all assholes and trying to have a conversation with them is pointless, useless and fruitless.

“The question was posed, "Why do people continue supporting Trump no matter what he does?" A lady named Bev answered it this way:
“You all don't get it. I live in Trump country, in the Ozarks in southern Missouri, one of the last places where the KKK still has a relatively strong established presence.
They don't give a shit what he does. He's just something to rally around and hate liberals, that's it, period.
He absolutely realizes that and plays it up. They love it. He knows they love it.
The fact that people act like it's anything other than that proves to them that liberals are idiots, all the more reason for high fives all around.
If you keep getting caught up in "why do they not realize this problem" and "how can they still back Trump after this scandal," then you do not understand what the underlying motivating factor of his support is. It's fuck liberals, that's pretty much it.
Have you noticed he can do pretty much anything imaginable, and they'll explain some way that rationalizes it that makes zero logical sense?
Because they're not even keeping track of any coherent narrative, it's irrelevant. Fuck liberals is the only relevant thing.
Trust me; I know firsthand what I'm talking about.
That's why they just laugh at it all because you all don't even realize they truly don't give a fuck about whatever the conversation is about.
It's just a side mission story that doesn't matter anyway.
That's all just trivial details - the economy, health care, whatever.
Fuck liberals.
Look at the issue with not wearing the masks.
I can tell you what that's about. It's about exposing fear. They're playing chicken with nature, and whoever flinches just moved down their internal pecking order, one step closer to being a liberal.
You've got to understand the one core value that they hold above all others is hatred for what they consider weakness because that's what they believe strength is, hatred of weakness.
And I mean passionate, sadistic hatred.
And I'm not exaggerating. Believe me.
Sadistic, passionate hatred, and that's what proves they're strong, their passionate hatred for weakness.
Sometimes they will lump vulnerability in with weakness.
They do that because people tend to start humbling themselves when they're in some compromising or overwhelming circumstance, and to them, that's an obvious sign of weakness.
Kindness = weakness. Honesty = weakness.
Compromise = weakness.
They consider their very existence to be superior in every way to anyone who doesn't hate weakness as much as they do.
They consider liberals to be weak people that are inferior, almost a different species, and the fact that liberals are so weak is why they have to unite in large numbers, which they find disgusting, but it's that disgust that is a true expression of their natural superiority.
Go ahead and try to have a logical, rational conversation with them. Just keep in mind what I said here and be forewarned.”
 
Color me naive and hopeful that there are true and serious conservatives lurking here who may be willing to come forth and engage in an exchange of competing ideas about how best to preserve our democratic republic and move the country forward...
 
Centerpiece said:
This is old, but it fits on this thread. What follows is why I don’t care to engage with any republican or maga or conservative. They’re all assholes and trying to have a conversation with them is pointless, useless and fruitless.

“The question was posed, "Why do people continue supporting Trump no matter what he does?" A lady named Bev answered it this way:
“You all don't get it. I live in Trump country, in the Ozarks in southern Missouri, one of the last places where the KKK still has a relatively strong established presence.
They don't give a shit what he does. He's just something to rally around and hate liberals, that's it, period.
He absolutely realizes that and plays it up. They love it. He knows they love it.
The fact that people act like it's anything other than that proves to them that liberals are idiots, all the more reason for high fives all around.
If you keep getting caught up in "why do they not realize this problem" and "how can they still back Trump after this scandal," then you do not understand what the underlying motivating factor of his support is. It's fuck liberals, that's pretty much it.
Have you noticed he can do pretty much anything imaginable, and they'll explain some way that rationalizes it that makes zero logical sense?
Because they're not even keeping track of any coherent narrative, it's irrelevant. Fuck liberals is the only relevant thing.
Trust me; I know firsthand what I'm talking about.
That's why they just laugh at it all because you all don't even realize they truly don't give a fuck about whatever the conversation is about.
It's just a side mission story that doesn't matter anyway.
That's all just trivial details - the economy, health care, whatever.
Fuck liberals.
Look at the issue with not wearing the masks.
I can tell you what that's about. It's about exposing fear. They're playing chicken with nature, and whoever flinches just moved down their internal pecking order, one step closer to being a liberal.
You've got to understand the one core value that they hold above all others is hatred for what they consider weakness because that's what they believe strength is, hatred of weakness.
And I mean passionate, sadistic hatred.
And I'm not exaggerating. Believe me.
Sadistic, passionate hatred, and that's what proves they're strong, their passionate hatred for weakness.
Sometimes they will lump vulnerability in with weakness.
They do that because people tend to start humbling themselves when they're in some compromising or overwhelming circumstance, and to them, that's an obvious sign of weakness.
Kindness = weakness. Honesty = weakness.
Compromise = weakness.
They consider their very existence to be superior in every way to anyone who doesn't hate weakness as much as they do.
They consider liberals to be weak people that are inferior, almost a different species, and the fact that liberals are so weak is why they have to unite in large numbers, which they find disgusting, but it's that disgust that is a true expression of their natural superiority.
Go ahead and try to have a logical, rational conversation with them. Just keep in mind what I said here and be forewarned.”
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I'm sure there's some of that. There's always going to be a team aspect to politics. But I have my doubts that what she is describing in the deep backwoods where the KKK still has a relatively active presence is really representative of a large part pf the American electorate. I doubt it is enough to get him elected and then re-elected. I think there is a sizable portion of the people that elected him that either liked his policies or were disappointed in the Democrat's policies/candidates.

I think if we are serious about moving forward, we need to get that figured out. We need to move beyond Trump only got elected because people are racist or sexist or whatever (despite some fairly recent evidence to the contrary that gets ignored) and really understand if it's because we are putting some pretty crummy candidates out there or not campaigning/governing in a way that is going to get us elected in a democracy.
 
Ramrouser said:
Likely Lincoln Project Republican (whom the media worships) with TDS. He’s conservative the way Nicole Wallace is conservative. Musk has shown TONS of fraud in that agency. 80/20 issue.
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Musk has shown zero fraud in that agency. He didn't even claim to have found any. They just closed it because it was helping people.

Why are you such a liar?
 
finesse said:
It doesn't have to get him elected if it gets him 75% of the way without question. Then he has to win the gullible, the uneducated and the scammers. all while supported by the pretty little hate machine that is rightwing media and their lies.
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He gets 75% of the way there just for having an R at the end of the name. Probably a little further. So did W and McCain, etc. the people I'm talking about are the persuadable middle. Obama won them. Joe won them. What happened to Kamala and Hillary and Kerry?
 
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Duke Mu said:
I am a former Republican. But the Tea Party--> alt-right -->Trump/MAGA --> Trump 2.0 = National Socialism are not conservatism, not in the Reagan/Buckley sense.

Whatever was bedrock conservatism died with John McCain.
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And had been losing ground since Pat Robertson, then Falwell.
 
Duke Mu said:
I am a former Republican. But the Tea Party--> alt-right -->Trump/MAGA --> Trump 2.0 = National Socialism are not conservatism, not in the Reagan/Buckley sense.

Whatever was bedrock conservatism died with John McCain.
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True enough… and this same conversation could be on the other thread “What happened to American Conservatives?” I wasn’t sure on which thread to post. But this one works too…
 
Zoo_View said:
Let’s remember that the hero to most American Conservatives, Ronald Reagan, was tied at the hip to Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Phyllis Schlafly, etc.
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Yeah. They thought he'd reverse the Justice Department's decision to deny federal funding to schools like Liberty, Bob Jones and a few other religious schools who still practiced segregation. Turns out he didn't, but both sides got a lot of mileage out of it. Once it died as a cause, they decided abortion was a sin and used that as the unifier for the Moral Majority types.
 
finesse said:
And had been losing ground since Pat Robertson, then Falwell.
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Pat Buchanan as a candidate.

Robertson and Falwell were on the rim of Nixon's Southern Strategy. They seemed clownish and were not central to Reagan or 41 administration although they were paid lip service, including WH visits. Robertson was more dangerous and had some momentum.

Once a WH candidate, then POTUS, entered 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. who was only half-white, the Tea Party first flipped in Texas from a libertarian movement and mutated to the Orange Headed monster it's become. Trump is both Frankenstein's Monster and the Manchurian Candidate.

Getting through this dystopia day-by-day is all I/we can do. Grant, contracts, graduate students are in peril or have been lost.

I wish Harvard and all Universities and Law Firms in court fighting Trump the best of luck, fortune, and the law on their side. The best contract law attorneys on the planet are representing.


Dems need to get out of the shadows and be seen. Draw the wrath of Mango Duce. But have a plan and simply explain to the people why we are on the wrong path.
 
Evangelicals generally stayed away from politics until the 70s. My stepfather was a Southern Baptist minister and I'd go to the local association meetings they had every month. The local pastors and the head of the association never talked politics except to express the idea that was not part of the church world.

I doubt that there was even an evangelical political organization when he ran except for maybe a local White Citizens Council.
 
finesse said:
Evangelicals generally stayed away from politics until the 70s.
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Yes, the political/cultural history of the 1970s in the south was the creation of a white identity in order to perpetuate the racism of the previous 150+ years plus under a thin veneer. It was never convincing to anyone but the gullible or the fellow travelers.
 
Duke Mu said:
Pat Buchanan as a candidate.

Robertson and Falwell were on the rim of Nixon's Southern Strategy. They seemed clownish and were not central to Reagan or 41 administration although they were paid lip service, including WH visits. Robertson was more dangerous and had some momentum.

Once a WH candidate, then POTUS, entered 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. who was only half-white, the Tea Party first flipped in Texas from a libertarian movement and mutated to the Orange Headed monster it's become. Trump is both Frankenstein's Monster and the Manchurian Candidate.

Getting through this dystopia day-by-day is all I/we can do. Grant, contracts, graduate students are in peril or have been lost.

I wish Harvard and all Universities and Law Firms in court fighting Trump the best of luck, fortune, and the law on their side. The best contract law attorneys on the planet are representing.


Dems need to get out of the shadows and be seen. Draw the wrath of Mango Duce. But have a plan and simply explain to the people why we are on the wrong path.
Click to expand...
This is most "leaderless" that I've seen Democrats since the 1980s, when they were blown out in three straight presidential elections and lost control of the Senate between 1981 and 1987. The difference is that then the Democrats at least controlled the House for that entire twelve-year period and were still competitive in most rural areas and in most states, including most of the South. I've come to the belief that Democrats are just shellshocked by Trump, and especially him winning a second time as a convicted felon, and they're still trying to figure out some way to respond. The reaction to his victory in 2016 was surprise but also anger and a lot of determination to resist. The reaction to his win last year, from what I saw on social media and in real life, was very different - a real sense of depression and head-shaking at what this country has become. I think Democrats generally, from top to bottom, are still trying to feel their way through a sick nation and decaying political system that has become something that many of them don't recognize anymore.
 
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Mulberry Heel said:
This is most "leaderless" that I've seen Democrats since the 1980s, when they were blown out in three straight presidential elections and lost control of the Senate between 1981 and 1987. The difference is that then the Democrats at least controlled the House for that entire twelve-year period and were still competitive in most rural areas and in most states, including most of the South. I've come to the belief that Democrats are just shellshocked by Trump, and especially him winning a second time as a convicted felon, and they're still trying to figure out some way to respond. The reaction to his victory in 2016 was surprise but also anger and a lot of determination to resist. The reaction to his win last year, from what I saw on social media and in real life, was very different - a real sense of depression and head-shaking at what this country has become. I think Democrats generally, from top to bottom, are still trying to feel their way through a sick nation and decaying political system that has become something that many of them don't recognize anymore.
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Doesn't your second sentence answer the whole post? Since the Dems held the House, they weren't legislatively irrelevant. Also, back then, local/regional politics were at least somewhat decoupled from national politics. Obviously that's not the case any more.

I don't think the Dems lack for leaders. It's not even halfway through the first year of Trump's term. The minority party, at this stage, is usually busy with its autopsy and formulation of a response. It seems more urgent now because duh, but again the problem is that national Dems have no power so it's entirely unclear what they would do if they had the best leadership.
 
It's very likely that we're going to have to wait for them to alienate their own. Once they start realizing that their idol has feet of clay (with bone spur reinforcements, theoretically) and they start crumbling, we might have a better angle of attack.
 
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