I do want conservatives on here

[Ramrouser]

You might want to check facts before assuming your dear leader loves animals

1. Weakening Endangered Species Act - The Trump admin are proposing significant changes to the ESA that would great limit the ability to protect animals in the future. One notable example is reducing the scope of "harm" to protected animals to exclude destruction of habitat. They are also wanting to include economic considerations when determining if a species should be designated as endangered.

This Act has been misused by environmentalists for stopping or delaying development. These groups have taken extreme positions on enforcement of the Act. That is the point of the changes to the ESA NOT any hatred of animals.

2. Increased Hunting on Public Lands - The Trump admin has opened up millions of acres of public land to sport hurting including on federal lands that were restricted national wildlife refuges. The impacts of these disruptions will hamper conservation and lead to destruction of natural ecosystems.

Enjoying hunting does not mean one hates animals. In many cases hunting is needed to reduce animal population.

3. Environmental Deregulation - The admin has repeatedly rolled back environmental regulations that are leading to more polluted water and air. The expansion of fossil fuel mining is doing similar.

Your biased opinion

4. Climate Change Denialism - Removing the US from the Paris Climate Agreement and generally supporting climate change denialism will help usher in massive threats to animals by altering habitats.

Your interpretation of the "benefit" of the Paris Agreement. A stretch to equate this with a hatred of animals.

5. Trophy Hunting - The Trump admin lifted bans on importing elephant and lion trophies from Africa. If you mean MAGA loves hanging dead animals on their walls maybe you have a point.

Admit, I haven't heard of this one. If true, then I oppose the Administration on the lifting of this ban.

Tell me more about how MAGA loves animals

I really don't see a love or hatred of animals as a particularly political position - that was my original point in response to Centerpiece's post. Plenty of conservatives and liberals who deeply care about animals and particularly their pets.

 

[tonman]

I don't know if this is a popular opinion or not, but I do hope we get some conservatives on here.

Variety is the spice of life and all that

Oh you mean diversity?

 

[UNCatTech]

This Act has been misused by environmentalists for stopping or delaying development. These groups have taken extreme positions on enforcement of the Act. That is the point of the changes to the ESA NOT any hatred of animals.


Enjoying hunting does not mean one hates animals. In many cases hunting is needed to reduce animal population.


Your biased opinion


Your interpretation of the "benefit" of the Paris Agreement. A stretch to equate this with a hatred of animals.


Admit, I haven't heard of this one. If true, then I oppose the Administration on the lifting of this ban.


I really don't see a love or hatred of animals as a particularly political position - that was my original point in response to Centerpiece's post. Plenty of conservatives and liberals who deeply care about animals and particularly their pets.

Ok, so they like animals as long as they animals don't impact building and developing?

The reason hunting is needed to reduce the number of animals is because of the imbalance humans have caused. Read about how reintroducing the Grey Wolf has leveled out deer populations. Humans caused the problem to begin with.

I do agree that most people on both sides probably live their animals. It's not the people I question as much as it is the motives of this administration. Trump has proven that everything he does is for his benefit therefore I question the motive even if a policy, on the surface, seems agreeable.

I am all for reducing or eliminating animal testing. I'm also for stronger protections of animals and their environments, screw development. We need to develop better and smarter. More density and less spraw.

 

[UNCatTech]

This Act has been misused by environmentalists for stopping or delaying development. These groups have taken extreme positions on enforcement of the Act. That is the point of the changes to the ESA NOT any hatred of animals.


Enjoying hunting does not mean one hates animals. In many cases hunting is needed to reduce animal population.


Your biased opinion


Your interpretation of the "benefit" of the Paris Agreement. A stretch to equate this with a hatred of animals.


Admit, I haven't heard of this one. If true, then I oppose the Administration on the lifting of this ban.


I really don't see a love or hatred of animals as a particularly political position - that was my original point in response to Centerpiece's post. Plenty of conservatives and liberals who deeply care about animals and particularly their pets.

There is already evidence of how climate change is impacting animals. Republican administration's clearly oppose any combat of climate change, they want to pretend it doesn't exist.

Environmental deregulation isn't helping. These regulations were derived from humans being willing to do most anything for money. There are plenty of examples of humans taking shortcuts to save money before the regulations. They still try with the regulations.

 

[UNCatTech]

Oh you mean diversity?

And inclusion.

 

[Centerpiece]

You guys wouldn’t last 2 minutes in the stands at a New Haven Hockey game.

 

[akillesheel]

I really don't see a love or hatred of animals as a particularly political position - that was my original point in response to Centerpiece's post. Plenty of conservatives and liberals who deeply care about animals and particularly their pets.

I'm going to say that bringing up people's care for their pets in response to a drive-by statement about the cruelty of conservatism vis-a-vis random animals on the street is little more than a non sequitur. Conservatism as an ideology is defined by the difference between how one thinks and cares about those close to them versus everybody else; that was the whole point that seemingly went over your head.

But you do open an interesting line of thought - In my own personal experience, liberals and left-leaning people are much more likely to talk about their pets as part of their family; you might not be able to tell whether one of them is talking about a child or an animal. I don't think that's true on the other side of the aisle; I find that the conservatives I know talk about their pets like they talk about their cars: particularly prized possessions that enrich their lives, but not entities with personalities.

 

[Zoo_View]

My conservative friends who have pets regard them as family members; they’re as crushed when a pet passes as anyone else.

 

[finesse]

I'm going to say that bringing up people's care for their pets in response to a drive-by statement about the cruelty of conservatism vis-a-vis random animals on the street is little more than a non sequitur. Conservatism as an ideology is defined by the difference between how one thinks and cares about those close to them versus everybody else; that was the whole point that seemingly went over your head.

But you do open an interesting line of thought - In my own personal experience, liberals and left-leaning people are much more likely to talk about their pets as part of their family; you might not be able to tell whether one of them is talking about a child or an animal. I don't think that's true on the other side of the aisle; I find that the conservatives I know talk about their pets like they talk about their cars: particularly prized possessions that enrich their lives, but not entities with personalities.

Much like they talk about their wives and children.

 

[Centerpiece]

Of course Maga can care for their immediate family and pets. And they can empathize with them and their plights. But go beyond that. How empathetic are they towards the planet? Towards those who can’t help themselves? To innocent animals, plants, birds and bees… to Mother Nature as a whole? How about migrants in Central and Souh America fleeing their homelands and fleeing their own authoritarian dictators, fleeing for their very lives… headed towards the “land of the free, the home of the brave”… headed toward the Statue of Liberty… give us your tired your poor… How empathetic is Maga in that regard?

Let’s not mince words here… let’s not conflate Maga with old school GOP conservatives like Colin Powell and John McCain.

Don’t mix up Maga with the Conservatives on this board who see the light and have disavowed trump and Maga.

And let’s not think for a moment a dog on a short leash, kept out on a chain with a cheap plastic doghouse for it’s only shelter in the heat of the summer and in the dead of winter is owned by anything other than a Maga piece of shit for a human being. Sure, that Maga piece of shit may bemoan their “pet” at its passing. But let’s not think for a minute that Maga gives 2 shits about much of any other living creature, human or otherwise.

These sonsabitches think Nazis are good, slavery was ok, separate but equal was great! What does anyone think “Make America Great Again” actually means? For them it means to go back to the way it was before Civil Rights, Equal Rights, Women’s suffrage.

 

[StrangePackage]

I've seen it happen often that people label those with views they disagree with as "trolling." It's like some kind of coping mechanism or something. The word is used *way* too often IMO.

I can't agree. One of the major political parties in the country has abandoned the notion of a shared reality and considers the antagonizing of the other side as preferable to policy or discourse.

What would you call a poster who did that?

 

[Ramrouser]

And let’s not think for a moment a dog on a short leash, kept out on a chain with a cheap plastic doghouse for it’s only shelter in the heat of the summer and in the dead of winter is owned by anything other than a Maga piece of shit for a human being. Sure, that Maga piece of shit may bemoan their “pet” at its passing. But let’s not think for a minute that Maga gives 2 shits about much of any other living creature, human

Respectfully, I think what you are describing is an issue of class and not political affiliation. No one in my orbit has an outside dog on a short lease. Quite the opposite.

 

[Bobfripp]

I can't agree. One of the major political parties in the country has abandoned the notion of a shared reality and considers the antagonizing of the other side as preferable to policy or discourse.

What would you call a poster who did that?

Though it might seem like they are deliberately being antagonizing (being trolls), I suspect this is actually how they think, puzzling though we might find it.

 

[superrific]

This Act has been misused by environmentalists for stopping or delaying development. These groups have taken extreme positions on enforcement of the Act. That is the point of the changes to the ESA NOT any hatred of animals.

By "these groups" do you mean the United States Supreme Court? Because that's who interpreted/interprets the act to include ALL endangered animals, no matter how seemingly insignificant. I quote from TVA v. Hill, a case that you should know but obviously don't.

"It may seem curious to some that the survival of a relatively small number of three-inch fish among all the countless millions of species extant would require the permanent halting of a virtually completed dam for which Congress has expended more than $100 million. The paradox is not minimized by the fact that Congress continued to appropriate large sums of public money for the project, even after congressional Appropriations Committees were apprised of its apparent impact upon the survival of the snail darter. We conclude, however, that the explicit provisions of the Endangered Species Act require precisely that result.

One would be hard-pressed to find a statutory provision whose terms were any plainer than those in § 7 of the Endangered Species Act. Its very words affirmatively command all federal agencies "to insure that actions authorized, funded, or carried out by them do not jeopardize the continued existence" of an endangered species or "result in the destruction or modification of habitat of such species. . . ."

Or maybe you refer to Congress, who wrote the law, and President Nixon, who signed it. Extreme radicals they were, lol.

 

[Silence Dogood]

This has been refuted at ad nauseum

Of course Maga can care for their immediate family and pets. And they can empathize with them and their plights. But go beyond that. How empathetic are they towards the planet? Towards those who can’t help themselves? To innocent animals, plants, birds and bees… to Mother Nature as a whole? How about migrants in Central and Souh America fleeing their homelands and fleeing their own authoritarian dictators, fleeing for their very lives… headed towards the “land of the free, the home of the brave”… headed toward the Statue of Liberty… give us your tired your poor… How empathetic is Maga in that regard?

Let’s not mince words here… let’s not conflate Maga with old school GOP conservatives like Colin Powell and John McCain.

Don’t mix up Maga with the Conservatives on this board who see the light and have disavowed trump and Maga.

And let’s not think for a moment a dog on a short leash, kept out on a chain with a cheap plastic doghouse for it’s only shelter in the heat of the summer and in the dead of winter is owned by anything other than a Maga piece of shit for a human being. Sure, that Maga piece of shit may bemoan their “pet” at its passing. But let’s not think for a minute that Maga gives 2 shits about much of any other living creature, human or otherwise.

These sonsabitches think Nazis are good, slavery was ok, separate but equal was great! What does anyone think “Make America Great Again” actually means? For them it means to go back to they way it was before Civil Rights, Equal Rights, Women’s suffrage.

These have been refuted at ad nauseum. You only make arguments like these because of liberalism failed ideologies. Until you quit boxing people into your worldview you'll always be stuck in your strawman arguments. You've probably around plenty of conservatives and had a good time and never felt threatened or harmed.

 

[UNCatTech]

This has been refuted at ad nauseum
These have been refuted at ad nauseum. You only make arguments like these because of liberalism failed ideologies. Until you quit boxing people into your worldview you'll always be stuck in your strawman arguments. You've probably around plenty of conservatives and had a good time and never felt threatened or harmed.

Did you not read this part: "Don’t mix up Maga with the Conservatives on this board who see the light and have disavowed trump and Maga."

He's not talking about normal conservatives, he's talking about the cult.

Many of us were conservative for years. I voted republican in every presidential election until trump. There was no way I was voting for that idiot. The republican party is not what it was just a dozen years ago.

 

[Zoo_View]

Did you not read this part: "Don’t mix up Maga with the Conservatives on this board who see the light and have disavowed trump and Maga."

He's not talking about normal conservatives, he's talking about the cult.

Many of us were conservative for years. I voted republican in every presidential election until trump. There was no way I was voting for that idiot. The republican party is not what it was just a dozen years ago.

Twelve years ago was 2013.

The Tea Party (a.k.a.; MAGA, Trumplican) had taken over the GOP in 2010.

 

[UNCatTech]

Twelve years ago was 2013.

The Tea Party (a.k.a.; MAGA, Trumplican) had taken over the GOP in 2010.

Yes, it was shifting, but going into the primaries no one expected the orange turn to be the candidate. There were others that year that I probably would have voted for, when trump became the candidate I knew the party had moved too far. Trump is just a bad person and it is sad that people can overlook that.

Also, I don't recall maga before trump. The tea party was moving that direction but they were not this bad.

 

[finesse]

MAGA is the Tea Party with the cream skimmed off and left to sour.

 

[Zoo_View]

MAGA is the Tea Party with the cream skimmed off and left to sour.

No.

MAGA is the Tea Party with a different name.