I do want conservatives on here

I am a proud conservative and I support the GOP.

I was a member of IC before it became IC. As in the old ACC Boards…

What the ZZL-P became was a joke. Certain posters, who I see are here, were allowed carte blanche on what they were allowed to say to those they disagreed with.

And of course the pile on that followed.

I will watch and see how this board evolves. So far it’s not much different.

Any differing opinions are because of the person having it is a “mouth breathing simpleton..”

That is a real good way to encourage healthy discussions.

It also shows how much many on the left are the exact same as the MAGA cultists but on the different side of the same coin.

Non-ironically it is the same few posters that led to the ZZLP board being shutdown.
 
I am a proud conservative and I support the GOP.

I was a member of IC before it became IC. As in the old ACC Boards…

What the ZZL-P became was a joke. Certain posters, who I see are here, were allowed carte blanche on what they were allowed to say to those they disagreed with.

And of course the pile on that followed.

I will watch and see how this board evolves. So far it’s not much different.

Any differing opinions are because of the person having it is a “mouth breathing simpleton..”

That is a real good way to encourage healthy discussions.

It also shows how much many on the left are the exact same as the MAGA cultists but on the different side of the same coin.

Non-ironically it is the same few posters that led to the ZZLP board being shutdown.
Are you sure you want to participate in this community? Sounds like you're more interested in grievance than engagement.
 
Are you sure you want to participate in this community? Sounds like you're more interested in grievance than engagement.
Not sure how you got that from his post. He very clearly said he stopped participating on the old board instead of feeling aggrieved.

My guess is he won't participate in this one for similar reasons, but I hope I'm wrong and this board can be better.
 
Are you sure you want to participate in this community? Sounds like you're more interested in grievance than engagement.
Case in point.

Do you want this to be an echo chamber?

Serious question to you and the others that are quick to attack the posters rather than the post.

And you were one of the main ones on the old board that are just as bad as the MAGA cultists….. just saying.

Your response pretty much proved my entire post to be correct.

Thanks for that.
 
I am a proud conservative and I support the GOP.

I was a member of IC before it became IC. As in the old ACC Boards…

What the ZZL-P became was a joke. Certain posters, who I see are here, were allowed carte blanche on what they were allowed to say to those they disagreed with.

And of course the pile on that followed.

I will watch and see how this board evolves. So far it’s not much different.

Any differing opinions are because of the person having it is a “mouth breathing simpleton..”

That is a real good way to encourage healthy discussions.

It also shows how much many on the left are the exact same as the MAGA cultists but on the different side of the same coin.

Non-ironically it is the same few posters that led to the ZZLP board being shutdown.
The board was shut down after the flood of right-wing trolls (not posters…TROLLS), who migrated from The Tar Pit to stir shit up after the first presidential debate. You do the math on that one.

We started this board to reset. It’s a left-leaning board, so you’ll just have to deal with that. If you’re here for healthy debate and understand that your ideas will be challenged while you are challenging ours, you’ll be fine. If you’re here to play the victim and whine about being outnumbered and complain about how mean the liberals are, you might as well just move on and find a different board to post on.

Unfortunately, based on your first post, you seem to be in the latter because you’re already complaining without anyone having attacked you. Hopefully, I’m wrong about that.
 
Case in point.

Do you want this to be an echo chamber?

Serious question to you and the others that are quick to attack the posters rather than the post.

And you were one of the main ones on the old board that are just as bad as the MAGA cultists….. just saying.

Your response pretty much proved my entire post to be correct.

Thanks for that.
Nobody said anything about an echo chamber.

You introduce yourself and the first thing you do is complain about IC being too left wing and mean and you've observed the same behaviors here.

If you don't want your positions to be challenged, then perhaps this community isn't meant for you. It's not for everyone.
 
you know, but I'll entertain you and Rai.
I was banned there 3 times:

1 - I supported Kapernick except for his cops are pigs socks. Sunny lead the charge and I was banned for 24 hours for trolling.
2 - I got into an argument with Chris around distinctions between tolerance, respect and acceptance. I positioned that I am not required to respect anyone's opinion, only their right to have it. Banned for 1 week to "settle down."
3 - I support the 3 state solution. I argued that the one state solution will lead to the genocide of Jews in Israel and many on the board support that. I was banned indefinitely and within 24 hours the same mod said the Jews were seeking the genocide of Gazans.
You sure you were banned for the substance of your views? I think that's not the issue. Let's take #3, for example.

"Many people on the board support a genocide of Jews," said you. Are you unable to comprehend why that is a pure slander? I grant that it's YOUR view that the one-state solution will lead to a genocide of Jews. I'll assume that it's a reasonable position -- but it's still only your view. Instead, you took YOUR speculation as fact -- an obvious fact that everybody understands so that support for a one-state solution is support for genocide. In reality, it's speculation that genocide would result from a one-state solution. People who support that policy aren't supporting genocide; they are simply disagreeing with your prediction.

There are so many way to express your position in terms that are not incendiary. Let's look at a couple:
A. "I think that a one-state solution will lead to a genocide of Jews, so I cannot support that position. You folks who support that solution ought to consider that aspect of the problem."
B. "A one-state solution could usher in a genocide of Jews. I don't know the exact odds, but it's a genocide so even a low risk should be taken extremely serious, right? Do you think that a low risk of genocide is acceptable?"
C. "I'm afraid of the genocide that could occur from a one-state solution. I'll assume that none of you want that outcome. So maybe it's worth explaining why you are sure that a genocide can't happen, because there are reasons to think it might."

Do you understand how all three of those options manage to convey the valid substance you were trying to express, without accusing other people of being genocidal maniacs? If you're having trouble with it, read those three options again, carefully. If you need further assistance, feel free to ask.

As for the comment that the "Jews were seeking the genocide of Gazans," I doubt that the person used the word Jews. Let's suppose for a moment that they said, "Israelis are seeking the genocide of Gazans." Notice how that isn't directed at any person on the board (probably- I'll get to that). So it's already of a completely different character than what you wrote. in addition, it doesn't require any speculation to be treated as fact. We can see exactly what Israel has done, and it's a reasonable to describe it as a genocide or a genocide precursor. Lots of dispassionate observers who know way more about the issue than you do have done exactly that. So it doesn't require anyone to treat your speculation as fact.

Now, it's possible that there are some Israelis who post on the board or who at least read it. So the statement "Israelis are seeking the genocide of Gazans" can have a personal attack aspect to it. Ideally, we would have unlimited time to massage the wording in our posts, but we don't and so lots of us use shorthand of various sorts. What was meant by the statement, of course, was "Israelis who support Netanyahu" but that's unwieldy. So if you're Israeli, you just say "I'm Israeli, and in no way do I seek the genocide of Gazans," and then we will clarify. We will remove the shorthand and be more careful. Note that this is, to the best of my knowledge, a counterfactual and one that doesn't need to be resolved in order to understand what was wrong with your post. I'm just adding some additional commentary.

If the statement was made "Jews are seeking the genocide of Gazans," then that's more of a problem. It's still not quite a personal attack. If you are Jewish, you can reasonably take offense. But it's still not targeted at you -- not in the way that "you people who support a one-state solution are advocating genocide." The problem is that the term Jews is being used too broadly. The response would be something like "Jews? All Jews? Which Jews?" and now the person who has made the statement can clarify. If the person is reasonable, they would say, "No, not all Jews. I shouldn't have written Jews. I mean the Jewish settlers in Israel" and then it's no longer anti-social. If the person doesn't back down, then they are being anti-Semitic and you should report the post.

Does this make sense?
 
A significant percentage of Americans believe that dinosaurs and humans coexisted. Should be we careful to make sure their views are represented here?
A couple of photos from the Noah's Ark exhibit in Kentucky.

1722441267250.png
1722441343733.png

Is anyone else surprised they use depictions of dinosaurs based on paleontological research, a science, but ignore the fossil/carbon dating (also a science) which separates man and dinosaur by 65M years?
 
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Old school conservatives are fine. Fiscally responsible; government should stay out of our personal lives - as long as no one is breaking any laws, abusing women, animals or children; Lower taxes for the common person; True conservationists (like Teddy Roosevelt - I wish conservatives would actually “conserve” things like Mother Earth instead of raping the land); Respect the law, including the FBI, the DOJ, putting no one above the law; Conservatives who used to respect our military veterans and not call them suckers and losers. People who respected Veterans like John McCain, etc.

MAGA and Trumpers are NOT, repeat NOT true conservatives like your daddies old GOP. The party of Lincoln and Eisenhower conservatives are more than welcome…. MAGA types can go suck it.
Old school conservatives in the South supported the sales tax on food because it taxed the N-words…….and they liked that because they claimed the Feds were giving N-words all sorts of benefits……my grandfather supported the sales tax for this reason…..despite being dirt poor himself and the sales tax, especially on food, costing him a lot.
 
You sure you were banned for the substance of your views? I think that's not the issue. Let's take #3, for example.

"Many people on the board support a genocide of Jews," said you. Are you unable to comprehend why that is a pure slander? I grant that it's YOUR view that the one-state solution will lead to a genocide of Jews. I'll assume that it's a reasonable position -- but it's still only your view. Instead, you took YOUR speculation as fact -- an obvious fact that everybody understands so that support for a one-state solution is support for genocide. In reality, it's speculation that genocide would result from a one-state solution. People who support that policy aren't supporting genocide; they are simply disagreeing with your prediction.

There are so many way to express your position in terms that are not incendiary. Let's look at a couple:
A. "I think that a one-state solution will lead to a genocide of Jews, so I cannot support that position. You folks who support that solution ought to consider that aspect of the problem."
B. "A one-state solution could usher in a genocide of Jews. I don't know the exact odds, but it's a genocide so even a low risk should be taken extremely serious, right? Do you think that a low risk of genocide is acceptable?"
C. "I'm afraid of the genocide that could occur from a one-state solution. I'll assume that none of you want that outcome. So maybe it's worth explaining why you are sure that a genocide can't happen, because there are reasons to think it might."

Do you understand how all three of those options manage to convey the valid substance you were trying to express, without accusing other people of being genocidal maniacs? If you're having trouble with it, read those three options again, carefully. If you need further assistance, feel free to ask.

As for the comment that the "Jews were seeking the genocide of Gazans," I doubt that the person used the word Jews. Let's suppose for a moment that they said, "Israelis are seeking the genocide of Gazans." Notice how that isn't directed at any person on the board (probably- I'll get to that). So it's already of a completely different character than what you wrote. in addition, it doesn't require any speculation to be treated as fact. We can see exactly what Israel has done, and it's a reasonable to describe it as a genocide or a genocide precursor. Lots of dispassionate observers who know way more about the issue than you do have done exactly that. So it doesn't require anyone to treat your speculation as fact.

Now, it's possible that there are some Israelis who post on the board or who at least read it. So the statement "Israelis are seeking the genocide of Gazans" can have a personal attack aspect to it. Ideally, we would have unlimited time to massage the wording in our posts, but we don't and so lots of us use shorthand of various sorts. What was meant by the statement, of course, was "Israelis who support Netanyahu" but that's unwieldy. So if you're Israeli, you just say "I'm Israeli, and in no way do I seek the genocide of Gazans," and then we will clarify. We will remove the shorthand and be more careful. Note that this is, to the best of my knowledge, a counterfactual and one that doesn't need to be resolved in order to understand what was wrong with your post. I'm just adding some additional commentary.

If the statement was made "Jews are seeking the genocide of Gazans," then that's more of a problem. It's still not quite a personal attack. If you are Jewish, you can reasonably take offense. But it's still not targeted at you -- not in the way that "you people who support a one-state solution are advocating genocide." The problem is that the term Jews is being used too broadly. The response would be something like "Jews? All Jews? Which Jews?" and now the person who has made the statement can clarify. If the person is reasonable, they would say, "No, not all Jews. I shouldn't have written Jews. I mean the Jewish settlers in Israel" and then it's no longer anti-social. If the person doesn't back down, then they are being anti-Semitic and you should report the post.

Does this make sense?
lots of good advice in there. thanks.
 
Old school conservatives in the South supported the sales tax on food because it taxed the N-words…….and they liked that because they claimed the Feds were giving N-words all sorts of benefits……my grandfather supported the sales tax for this reason…..despite being dirt poor himself and the sales tax, especially on food, costing him a lot.
Oh I get that. My granddaddy was from Talladega AL… but I’m not isolating just “in the South”… those weren’t traditional GOPers either, they were Dixiecrats.

So let’s do a reset and replace the term conservatives and call it old school Republicans or GOP. The party of Lincoln, Teddy, Eisenhower. Some non-racists and reasonably minded “conservatives” who didn’t drink the trumpkoolaid. We all know the kind - Adam Kinzinger being the torch bearer.

Nah, the Southern Dixiecrats need not apply.
 
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Have we found any conservatives yet worth keeping? There is no law of the universe mandating that conservatives are trolls, and yet. Maybe non-troll conservatives are in short supply and get paid to frequent other sites?
I honestly believe that once you profess the big lie that tax cuts for rich people helps out poor people, then you’re on a slippery slope. It’s no longer “should I lie or tell the truth?”, it’s “I’m a liar, but maybe I can pick and choose what I going to lie about”. But to do that, you have to keep your story straight with your fellow conservatives about which lies you are telling and which truths you are respecting. This is an inherently unstable place to be, so we experience the race to the bottom that we are seeing. That why there are so few never Trumpers.
 
Case in point.

Do you want this to be an echo chamber?

Serious question to you and the others that are quick to attack the posters rather than the post.

And you were one of the main ones on the old board that are just as bad as the MAGA cultists….. just saying.

Your response pretty much proved my entire post to be correct.

Thanks for that.
To the extent this board is an echo chamber, it’s due to the fact that this board is a marketplace for ideas. Ideas supported by fact, reason and logic will do plenty fine here. But don’t expect support for weak, flawed B.S. we’re just going to call it out. Support your ideas with facts and logic and you’ll do fine.
 
To the extent this board is an echo chamber, it’s due to the fact that this board is a marketplace for ideas. Ideas supported by fact, reason and logic will do plenty fine here. But don’t expect support for weak, flawed B.S. we’re just going to call it out. Support your ideas with facts and logic and you’ll do fine.
The predictability of empirical data and logical consistency leading to more liberal positions is an argument for this board possessing a staunch rational bias, more-so than a liberal ideological echo.
 
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