If Trump Wins

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Bosiding normalizes Trump by implying the other option isnt any better.

Anything that normalizes Donald Trump is disingenuous at best, or downright ignorant at worst.

So we’re anchored to Trump. Everything is in the context of and framed around Trump. We can accept anybody who’s just a little better than Trump and we don’t need to evaluate the merits of a candidate (or a party) on a stand alone basis.

And if you feel that (arguably) the greatest nation on earth should have the greatest leadership candidates (and parties) on earth, and the current aren’t that, you’re “bosiding”?
 
So we’re anchored to Trump. Everything is in the context of and framed around Trump. We can accept anybody who’s just a little better than Trump and we don’t need to evaluate the merits of a candidate (or a party) on a stand alone basis.

And if you feel that (arguably) the greatest nation on earth should have the greatest leadership candidates (and parties) on earth, and the current aren’t that, you’re “bosiding”?
Im sure if you complain hard enough the Democratic Party will swap out Kamala for who ever you deem is appropriate.

Be for real man. There are two people who are going to President, either Harris or Trump. Those are the choices. Would I prefer someone else over both of them? Yeah. But right now, Harris is better than Trump. That’s how voting works.
 
How would Trump/Meadows/SCOTUS silence someone?

BTW, this "you will be silenced by 'them'" sounds a LOT like Trumpers talking about what will happen if Democrats get into power
this is some epic "who are you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes" BS. at this point, you're either willfully ignorant or you're posting in bad faith.

the right is actively engaged in doing these things, their claims that dems are doing it are lies/propaganda/projection.

only one side is furiously stripping civil liberties and forcing their religion on people and banning books and words and denying the humanity of POC and immigrants and the lgbtq community.
 
I have yet to hear any of the “both candidates are bad” people here specifically state WHY they think Kamala is bad. What exactly has caused you to reach that conclusion? I’m not aware of any fact-based argument that could support the position she’s not highly qualified to be president of the United States.
 
How would Trump/Meadows/SCOTUS silence someone?

BTW, this "you will be silenced by 'them'" sounds a LOT like Trumpers talking about what will happen if Democrats get into power
As president, Trump threatened individual journalists, groups of journalists and specific media organizations. Same for intimidation. His stance has led to more violence against journalists. Proj 25 wants to end funding for NPR and PBS. Trump repeatedly has asked to jail journalists for things like not divulging their sources (like when journos reported on the Dobbs decision leak and many others).

And Trump has discussed repeatedly how he's going to have a vendetta tour against anyone he perceives as critical of him, and this directly includes retribution against media and journalists. https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/07/media/trump-threatens-retribution-against-press/index.html

So: silencing them thru defunding, thru creating fears for their safety, DOJ usage (which SCOTUS will allow).
 
this is some epic "who are you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes" BS. at this point, you're either willfully ignorant or you're posting in bad faith.

the right is actively engaged in doing these things, their claims that dems are doing it are lies/propaganda/projection.

only one side is furiously stripping civil liberties and forcing their religion on people and banning books and words and denying the humanity of POC and immigrants and the lgbtq community.
Even though there is overlap, I don't want to conflate Trump and "The Right". I don't blame Biden for Oregon's easily-foreseeable failed experiment of legalizing all drugs. I'm not going to condemn the entire Democratic party for the issues in San Francisco. The broad-brush approach to politics is a big reason that the temperature of the political conversation has increased. "If San Fran is a mess because of the policies of Democrats, then ALL Democrats support those policies and want to implement them nationwide if they get into power." That's not constructive.

I read and post on Left and Right forums. I have friends that I'd consider "left" (my good friend's wife spoke at Obama's DNC during his re-election campaign). I have family that is MAGA. I assure you, whether you believe it or not, that my MAGA family absolutely believes that Biden/Harris/Dems are a threat to the country just as much as you may believe Trump/MAGA is a threat to our Democracy.

Trump has said, and will continue to see childish, inflammatory and unPresidential things. Those things, along with the things I have heard on MSNBC/CNN/Fox, seen on Twitter, FB, etc, I am certain contribute to violence, general unrest and likely the two assassination attempts.

But people aren't leaving the country because Trump makes some bad word choices. Bad word choices don't make Trump a threat to Democracy or the country.

The claim is that Trump winning is an existential threat to the country. I'm asking how. What can he do with executive orders? If he's mad at Rachel Maddow, what legal actions can he take using the power of the federal government?

I just don't see it happening and none of the responses have convinced me otherwise and, based on several other responses, haven't convinced others either.
 
"The claim is that Trump winning is an existential threat to the country."

You don't believe that weakening our international alliances, emboldening and strengthening our foreign adversaries, undermining and endangering our intelligence gathering apparatus abroad, and stocking military leadership with politically- motivated sycophantic yes men, is an existential threat to our national security?
 
So we’re anchored to Trump. Everything is in the context of and framed around Trump. We can accept anybody who’s just a little better than Trump and we don’t need to evaluate the merits of a candidate (or a party) on a stand alone basis.

And if you feel that (arguably) the greatest nation on earth should have the greatest leadership candidates (and parties) on earth, and the current aren’t that, you’re “bosiding”?
The fear is real. For many Dems it's "You're either with us or you're against us" and it doesn't matter if that includes denying the fact that they were running a mentally compromised, unfit Biden or an incredibly underwhelming Harris.
 
"The claim is that Trump winning is an existential threat to the country."

You don't believe that weakening our international alliances, emboldening and strengthening our foreign adversaries, undermining and endangering our intelligence gathering apparatus abroad, and stocking military leadership with politically- motivated sycophantic yes men, is an existential threat to our national security?
I think there are pros and cons to any president, but no one President is a true threat to the country. We made it through the deadliest pandemic in our lifetime with Trump running things. If he wins, he'll do what he does, but it's simply not possible that he can do anything to truly put the country at risk in four years. If the system that our country is built on is designed that poorly then we have much bigger problems.
 
I think there are pros and cons to any president, but no one President is a true threat to the country. We made it through the deadliest pandemic in our lifetime with Trump running things. If he wins, he'll do what he does, but it's simply not possible that he can do anything to truly put the country at risk in four years. If the system that our country is built on is designed that poorly then we have much bigger problems.
Your contention is that the person with plenary power to launch, direct and supervise military operations, order or authorize the deployment of troops, unilaterally launch nuclear weapons, form military policy with the Department of Defense and Homeland Security, and declassify sensitive intelligence, "can't do anything to put the country at risk"? I just want to make sure I am understanding your argument.
 
The claim is that Trump winning is an existential threat to the country. I'm asking how. What can he do with executive orders? If he's mad at Rachel Maddow, what legal actions can he take using the power of the federal government?

I just don't see it happening and none of the responses have convinced me otherwise and, based on several other responses, haven't convinced others either.
Well, for one thing, he could round up immigrants and put them in detention camps. For another thing, he can sell US policy for personal financial gain, which he has almost certainly done. He can order the DOJ to take legal actions against people he doesn't like, which he did when he tried to stop the AT&T Time Warner merger. He can direct federal aid only to his supporters, which is what he did in North Carolina when there was a hurricane.

One of the reasons that he's fallen so in love with tariffs is that they are the ultimate weaponization. Because Congress has given the president virtually unlimited discretion in placing tariffs, Trump can use tariffs to reward supporters, punish enemies and extract money. He's already done this. When he was establishing retaliatory tariffs against the EU pursuant to a WTO judgment, he did something almost unprecedented: instead of tariffing the goods that would hurt key European producers, thus dissuading the European Union from putting in trade barriers, he chose to tariff items consumed by liberals.

I'm not going to get into a long discussion with you about this. Every lawyer on this board is in agreement that Trump has the ability to weaponize our laws against political foes, has done so before, and almost certainly will again. Meanwhile, you don't know the basics. Like executive orders. Executive orders actually carry no force of law. They are merely public directives to administrative agencies. Those same directives can be delivered privately, and they can be instructions to alter rulemaking or enforcement actions against political enemies.
 
Your contention is that the person with plenary power to launch, direct and supervise military operations, order or authorize the deployment of troops, unilaterally launch nuclear weapons, form military policy with the Department of Defense and Homeland Security, and declassify sensitive intelligence, "can't do anything to put the country at risk"? I just want to make sure I am understanding your argument.
Maybe we define "putting the country at risk" differently. Yes, a nuclear war could legitimately put the country at risk, but I see no reason to believe he would do that and the odds at nearly zero that he would.

Other things that he could do, but are unlikely to do, would be issues, but not a threat to the country.

Let's be honest, despite all the rhetoric and panic, we (US and world) made it through his first term without much issue. The world was pretty quiet relatively speaking.
 
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Even though there is overlap, I don't want to conflate Trump and "The Right". I don't blame Biden for Oregon's easily-foreseeable failed experiment of legalizing all drugs. I'm not going to condemn the entire Democratic party for the issues in San Francisco. The broad-brush approach to politics is a big reason that the temperature of the political conversation has increased. "If San Fran is a mess because of the policies of Democrats, then ALL Democrats support those policies and want to implement them nationwide if they get into power." That's not constructive.

I read and post on Left and Right forums. I have friends that I'd consider "left" (my good friend's wife spoke at Obama's DNC during his re-election campaign). I have family that is MAGA. I assure you, whether you believe it or not, that my MAGA family absolutely believes that Biden/Harris/Dems are a threat to the country just as much as you may believe Trump/MAGA is a threat to our Democracy.

Trump has said, and will continue to see childish, inflammatory and unPresidential things. Those things, along with the things I have heard on MSNBC/CNN/Fox, seen on Twitter, FB, etc, I am certain contribute to violence, general unrest and likely the two assassination attempts.

But people aren't leaving the country because Trump makes some bad word choices. Bad word choices don't make Trump a threat to Democracy or the country.

The claim is that Trump winning is an existential threat to the country. I'm asking how. What can he do with executive orders? If he's mad at Rachel Maddow, what legal actions can he take using the power of the federal government?

I just don't see it happening and none of the responses have convinced me otherwise and, based on several other responses, haven't convinced others either.
claiming that there is just "some overlap" with trump and the right is disingenuous BS. he is the leader of the party, they're all in lockstep with him and cater to his every whim. anti-lgbtq legislation is extremely popular with the GOP right now. equating a core tenet of their platform with the failed drug policy (which has worked elsewhere) in one city that was under dem governance is farcical - wholesale drug legalization isn't even remotely part of the dem platform. the san francisco mention is even sillier - go look at those government assistance maps in the other thread and get back to us on which party is taking better care of the citizenry.

trump's current campaign, his last administration and his prospective future administration will be loaded with far right reactionaries who authored and will enact project 2025 which contains numerous policy proposals that will disenfranchise the lgbtq community.

maga folk believing things about democrats that are demonstrably false doesn't change the fact that the GOP is in fact consistently taking action to remove / bulldoze democratic norms all over the country via election shenanigans and fraud, court packing, gerrymandering, etc. etc.
 
claiming that there is just "some overlap" with trump and the right is disingenuous BS. he is the leader of the party, they're all in lockstep with him and cater to his every whim. anti-lgbtq legislation is extremely popular with the GOP right now. equating a core tenet of their platform with the failed drug policy (which has worked elsewhere) in one city that was under dem governance is farcical - wholesale drug legalization isn't even remotely part of the dem platform. the san francisco mention is even sillier - go look at those government assistance maps in the other thread and get back to us on which party is taking better care of the citizenry.

trump's current campaign, his last administration and his prospective future administration will be loaded with far right reactionaries who authored and will enact project 2025 which contains numerous policy proposals that will disenfranchise the lgbtq community.

maga folk believing things about democrats that are demonstrably false doesn't change the fact that the GOP is in fact consistently taking action to remove / bulldoze democratic norms all over the country via election shenanigans and fraud, court packing, gerrymandering, etc. etc.
I agree with most of what you said.

I'm not saying Trump isn't the leader of the party...which is why I hope he goes away. All I'm saying is that there are things that Trump has done and said that he should be accountable for, but he shouldn't be held accountable for things that others in the Republican party do. Like I said, I don't blame Biden/Harris for Oregon's failed legalized drug experiment. I don't blame Biden/Harris for San Francisco's issues. If Florida went to crap during covid, because DeSantis opened too soon, I wouldn't blame Trump for that.
 
Would I prefer someone else over both of them? Yeah. But right now, Harris is better than Trump. That’s how voting works.
I dunno, I'm pretty fired up about Kamala. I think she stacks up favorably to anybody the dems could currently offer up as a presidential candidate. Better than most, actually. She checks a lot of boxes. Now then, regarding Trump, I completely agree...
 
I dunno, I'm pretty fired up about Kamala. I think she stacks up favorably to anybody the dems could currently offer up as a presidential candidate. Better than most, actually. She checks a lot of boxes. Now then, regarding Trump, I completely agree...
I think her media strategy is slightly baffling unless her team doesn’t trust her in some of these environments. I think we could’ve had a candidate who was better on the stump and in retail settings. I’d also prefer someone more willing to present a left wing message on healthcare and immigration.

My perfect candidate doesn’t even exist though. Like I said, voting is about whoever is closest to your desired goals. I’m much more confident that Harris would be able to be pressured by the left while in office than I am that Trump could be, to say the least.
 
I think her media strategy is slightly baffling unless her team doesn’t trust her in some of these environments. I think we could’ve had a candidate who was better on the stump and in retail settings. I’d also prefer someone more willing to present a left wing message on healthcare and immigration.

My perfect candidate doesn’t even exist though. Like I said, voting is about whoever is closest to your desired goals. I’m much more confident that Harris would be able to be pressured by the left while in office than I am that Trump could be, to say the least.
We don’t often agree on issues but I appreciate you and your rational understanding of how voting is a choice between two options. Just because you vote for Harris doesn’t mean you “like” her necessarily. She’s just closer to you than Trump is.

If more people understood that basic thing, we could all get along a lot better.
 
We don’t often agree on issues but I appreciate you and your rational understanding of how voting is a choice between two options. Just because you vote for Harris doesn’t mean you “like” her necessarily. She’s just closer to you than Trump is.

If more people understood that basic thing, we could all get along a lot better.
I have no agenda or ulterior motive for asking this other than genuine curiosity, and I want to ask some of my Trump supporting family members this too, but what, if anything, would be disqualifying enough for you to *not* cast a vote for Trump? (And I don’t mean vote for Harris as an alternative, I mean just not vote for Trump). For example, I know you know my FIL, and his final line in the sand for not voting for Trump was the 1-2 punch of Trump’s pro-Russia/anti-Ukraine stance, combined with Trump’s single-handed blocking of the GOP border security bill. I am almost certain he will not vote for Harris, but he has said he will absolutely not vote for Trump. Just curious to hear your perspective- and in fairness you could certainly turn right around and ask me what would be disqualifying enough for me to not vote for Harris and I’d be happy to respond.
 
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