I'm a former IC ZZL/P Mod = AMA

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isn’t that what the old Scout star system was intended to do? Except they could have made it like Reddit where negatively rated posts get buried
I think so, but it basically led to unpopular posts getting downvoted rather than being any real reflection of quality.

Unfortunately, crowd-voting rarely works well. I've seen plenty of times on Reddit that it works quite poorly.
 
If everyone can completely ignore posters they don't want to read and find problematic, it does decrease the need to remove those folks for "the good of the board".
And for the good of the bored... <points at Norm>...
 
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that's 95% of the world is straight and 5% is gay. If those two groups switch places, do you think birth rates would increase, decrease or remain unchanged?
There's no way to know what would happen to birth rates if 95% of the population preferred having sex with a same sex partner. Likely it would decrease, which would be a good thing, but that's a hypothetical that nobody can answer with certainty. What is certain is that even if that did happen it's a far cry from putting the survival of human beings at risk. Anyone who thinks that is abnormal...
 
And this is where everybody is a moderator. I’ve tried the ignore thing… but the BS still seeps through. Super ignore allows one to “ban” a poster from your world. I was told early on by nyc simply: don’t respond or engage, then after that, hit ignore, then after that super ignore. Basically they want us to police the board ourselves. Yes, this will eventually turn this into the “dreaded echo chamber” …. But…. Oh well.
I can live with the "dreaded echo chamber". I come here primarily to learn things. I like posts far more than I post. I don't come here to get stressed and suffer trolling assholes. I generally give people multiple chances to show their true character. If they persist in assholery, I ban them with no remorse or FOMO. That's just me. Results may vary for others.
 
I think so, but it basically led to unpopular posts getting downvoted rather than being any real reflection of quality.

Unfortunately, crowd-voting rarely works well. I've seen plenty of times on Reddit that it works quite poorly.
I still remember the day they made downvotes paid and limited you to five.

247 makes my blood boil almost as much as Donald Trump. Which is insane.
 
First, I want to report that Mr. and Ms. sunnyheel have evacuated our St. Petersburg home for higher ground following a grueling exercise in storm prep anticipating the worst case scenario and with the wreckage of Helene fresh in our minds and mostly still in our neighborhoods.

This thread stirs a lot of memories and emotions over decades. The most important thing to recognize is the effort and obvious conscientiousness that Snoop exercised voluntarily on behalf of everyone in our Board community. Big thanks for your years of service and now your willingness to expose us to your inner workings.

That said, moderation was the impetus for my disillusionment with the old board but perhaps not in the way that most of the complainers describe. Their gripes are about what they view as unfair treatment due to partisan bias, but I perceived the problem as capriciousness.

We all know that enforcement of the “no personal attacks” was uneven and therefore perceived as random or, in the eyes of the perpetually aggrieved, motivated by that librul bias. In reality, the moderators heard so much rightist whinging about bias, they overcompensated at times by heavy-handed enforcement against liberals. Case in point: my posting was oftentimes inflected by provocation and rhetorical embellishment. I was warned not to use the term Uncle Tom as applied to Black politicians and pundits who traded in racist tropes (that would be easily recognized as such if published by a white author) in pursuit of career advancement or the approval of white racist audiences/benefactors. I felt that banning this term was a token gesture to assuage the whiners and not a real call out of any form of hate speech.

In search of an alternative to this verboten term that fully captured the essence of these players of the (self-hating) race card, I came upon the term kapo which is a reference to the Jews who were vilified by their cohorts for aiding Nazi persecution and genocide in order to draw the favor of their captors. Despite the effective obsolescence of this term and its lack of any bigoted connotation, the “hive” determined that this would be an opportune occasion to lay down the ban hammer, which I avoided by a promise of compliance.

This is just an example that remains clear to me, but we all know how sensitive the mods became to the aspersions of librul bias. Hasta la vista Ovshinsky and vojak.

The thing that agitated me the most, though, was the absolute refusal of moderation for violations of the clear prohibition on posting copyrighted material. Certain posters had developed the annoying habit of copying and pasting whole columns and essays from other publications. Without enforcement, the habit spread to the gruesome “re-tweeting” of twitter posts, and soon the board’s tone and content shifted to that of mainstream social media.

I kept visiting despite the downgrade and the non-responsiveness of moderation to my appeals until other factors prompted my decision to jump ship.

So I want to ask Snoop, who has been so earnest in defense of his dedication to the preservation of board standards, why this constant, arrant flouting of clear rules was allowed to persist.

Now I’m pretty sure Snoop was not the determining authority on this practice of non-enforcement, but I would like to know how it can be such a necessary burden to enforce some rules and contrariwise for others, all developed presumably as a setting of standards.

Finally I want to make clear that I favor a more free-wheeling experience (with the usual exceptions for hate speech, doxxing, and personal attacks) and give big kudos for the way Rock has set this place up. On this thread some of the posters who were penalized for their bad faith style (trolling) have outed themselves for righteous application of the super ignore hammer.
 
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I still remember the day they made downvotes paid and limited you to five.

247 makes my blood boil almost as much as Donald Trump. Which is insane.
That was in response to someone creating sock puppet accounts on the ZZL and (seemingly) writing a script so they would all log in, downvote a post, logout, login the next one etc...
 
The place where we listed a reason for someone's ban was fairly limited character-wise, so we almost never put actual posts/quotes in there. At the time, we would have recorded what specific post or posts that drew the ban was, but the records for that time period are long gone by now.

Given that you admitted that you said on a thread about transgender folks that some people "need to grow a set of balls", I don't know why anyone would find you transphobic. It is certainly a mystery. You being banned for being a transphobe seems little more than the logical outcome of your posts.

You did find a place where our PM/ban thread note practices failed. If I had a ribbon or a cookie, I'd be glad to give it to you.

You've certainly made a point...that you managed to get banned twice on a message board by 2 different sets of moderators, that you made a pretty obviously transphobic post, that you reacted poorly to at least the second ban, and that you've held a grudge for considerable number of years. So you've proven that you're a shitty poster with poor emotional regulation. Congrats on your achievement.
That's rich coming from a man who dropped the banhammer every time his emotions got the best of him.

And as to this supposed grudge - don't start an ego-driven thread about your own moderating without expecting some people to comment that they thought it sucked. You're the same insecure little banhammer dropping bitch you always were.
 
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You can look at my post history there and tell full well that I'm not transphobic, but the visceral need for instant message board power gratification overcame someone. Again, there was no communication with me at all (you don't deny that). And I already told you what I said. I said some of the people upset over the Chapelle special need to get a set of balls. And it doesn't surprise me that some people on the ZZLP would get all bent out of shape about that. But it was an obvious joke. If it missed the mark, fine. Communicate. Delete it. The banning was a pussy move, period. And it was very typical. I love that someone (probably you) put that the ban was for a transphobic comment without even stating what it was. I guess they were covering their ass if it went up to the PTB you speak of, or if it unexpectedly came up 8 years later on a message board.

Anyway, I've made my point. Things over there are not what you say they were. I think the place was moderated poorly and I'm done calling you out. I'm sure your little cheerleaders over here like the one you warned ten times without banning will get you through the saga too, even if they resemble a dook squad.
Alright, fuck it, here's my olive branch to you. I've enjoyed trading barbs and talking shit with you but now I have a very serious, very sincere, absolutely no snark or sarcasm question. Why does any of this matter so much to you? Again, completely serious here- not being a smartass (anymore). Why has this bothered you so deeply for so long? It is very clear that this is something about which you've been angry for a while. I'm just curious as to why it matters so much to you. You don't have to feel obligated to answer- you don't owe me a damn thing. I'm just genuinely trying to understand your perspective on this. I guess from my perspective, I just don't care enough or take any internet message board stuff seriously at all. I like conversing with other folks, most of whom are infinitely smarter than me, and I like the occasional shit-talking opportunity. Beyond that, I don't ever think of this board once I'm not logged on. So I guess I'm just sincerely curious to understand why the moderation of the old ZZLP has been such a longstanding sore spot for you.
 
That was in response to someone creating sock puppet accounts on the ZZL and (seemingly) writing a script so they would all log in, downvote a post, logout, login the next one etc...
And so they apply that to Kansas' site? Ridiculous. God I hate them so much.
 
I can live with the "dreaded echo chamber". I come here primarily to learn things. I like posts far more than I post. I don't come here to get stressed and suffer trolling assholes. I generally give people multiple chances to show their true character. If they persist in assholery, I ban them with no remorse or FOMO. That's just me. Results may vary for others.
We are of a mind.
Give me the echo chamber of common sense, rationality, defensible positions (go ahead and fact check me live, I got this).
Please deliver me from evil thoughts, deeds, temptations and actions which may harm other living beings.
And BTW: Go Heels and Duck f00k. :cool:
 
First, I want to report that Mr. and Ms. sunnyheel have evacuated our St. Petersburg home for higher ground following a grueling exercise in storm prep anticipating the worst case scenario and with the wreckage of Helene fresh in our minds and mostly still in our neighborhoods.

This thread stirs a lot of memories and emotions over decades. The most important thing to recognize is the effort and obvious conscientiousness that Snoop exercised voluntarily on behalf of everyone in our Board community. Big thanks for your years of service and now your willingness to expose us to your inner workings.

That said, moderation was the impetus for my disillusionment with the old board but perhaps not in the way that most of the complainers describe. Their gripes are about what they view as unfair treatment due to partisan bias, but I perceived the problem as capriciousness.

We all know that enforcement of the “no personal attacks” was uneven and therefore perceived as random or, in the eyes of the perpetually aggrieved, motivated by that librul bias. In reality, the moderators heard so much rightist whinging about bias, they overcompensated at times by heavy-handed enforcement against liberals. Case in point: my posting was oftentimes inflected by provocation and rhetorical embellishment. I was warned not to use the term Uncle Tom as applied to Black politicians and pundits who traded in racist tropes (that would be easily recognized as such if published by a white author) in pursuit of career advancement or the approval of white racist audiences/benefactors. I felt that banning this term was a token gesture to assuage the whiners and not a real call out of any form of hate speech.

In search of an alternative to this verboten term that fully captured the essence of these players of the (self-hating) race card, I came upon the term kapo which is a reference to the Jews who were vilified by their cohorts for aiding Nazi persecution and genocide in order to draw the favor of their captors. Despite the effective obsolescence of this term and its lack of any bigoted connotation, the “hive” determined that this would be an opportune occasion to lay down the ban hammer, which I avoided by a promise of compliance.

This is just an example that remains clear to me, but we all know how sensitive the mods became to the aspersions of librul bias. Hasta la vista Ovshinsky and vojak.

The thing that agitated me the most, though, was the absolute refusal of moderation for violations of the clear prohibition on posting copyrighted material. Certain posters had developed the annoying habit of copying and pasting whole columns and essays from other publications. Without enforcement, the gruesome habit spread to “re-tweeting” twitter posts, and soon the board’s tone and content shifted to that of mainstream social media.

I kept visiting despite the downgrade and the non-responsiveness of moderation to my appeals until other factors prompted my decision to jump ship.

So I want to ask Snoop, who has been so earnest in defense of his dedication to the preservation of board standards, why this constant, arrant flouting of clear rules was allowed to persist.

Now I’m pretty sure Snoop was not the determining authority on this practice of non-enforcement, but I would like to know how it can be such a necessary burden to enforce some rules and contrariwise for others, all developed presumably as a setting of standards.

Finally I want to make clear that I favor a more free-wheeling experience (with the usual exceptions for hate speech, doxxing, and personal attacks) and give big kudos for the way Rock has set this place up. On this thread some of the posters who were penalized for their bad faith style have outed themselves for righteousness application of the super ignore hammer.
Good to hear from you again, sunnyheel. I always learned something from your posts and missed them when you decided to "jump ship".

May the winds blow in your favor. If you & the Mrs. need a place to escape the storm, I'm just up the road in SC.
 
Alright, fuck it, here's my olive branch to you. I've enjoyed trading barbs and talking shit with you but now I have a very serious, very sincere, absolutely no snark or sarcasm question. Why does any of this matter so much to you? Again, completely serious here- not being a smartass (anymore). Why has this bothered you so deeply for so long? It is very clear that this is something about which you've been angry for a while. I'm just curious as to why it matters so much to you. You don't have to feel obligated to answer- you don't owe me a damn thing. I'm just genuinely trying to understand your perspective on this. I guess from my perspective, I just don't care enough or take any internet message board stuff seriously at all. I like conversing with other folks, most of whom are infinitely smarter than me, and I like the occasional shit-talking opportunity. Beyond that, I don't ever think of this board once I'm not logged on. So I guess I'm just sincerely curious to understand why the moderation of the old ZZLP has been such a longstanding sore spot for you.

I'm not the one that started this thread. I'm not the one who fucking directly encouraged people to talk about moderating. I've never made any secret I thought he sucked there or here, but he started a fucking thread specifically to talk about moderating. So don't act like the poster who told him what he didn't want to hear is the one hung up on moderating. I mean he has admitted he was too big of a pussy to respond when I asked why I got banned when I never had a warning in five years? So I have kinda enjoyed watching him finally respond. But this thread isn't my baby. It belongs to the one that started it.

So you need to take a look at that poster who tried to bask in his perceived glory as a fucking message board moderator and then started a thread about it. That is the one who is obsessed with moderating, and trying to recapture the little piece of it he still needs by telling the world all about it. Not the one who made on-topic responses.

I told what happened to me the exact way it happened. That's all I did and I left nothing out and it's true. Draw from it what you wish. I was banned with no warning or communication and I'm sure it happened to a lot of others who didn't stick around even though you got ten warnings and no bans. Some people will fall on his side and some may fall on mine. I don't care. But if he starts a thread about moderating I'm gonna tell people why I thought he sucked. People can make their own decisions about who is right. And the hardcore message board types can even get that little rush they get when they announce that they are ignoring someone.
 
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First, I want to report that Mr. and Ms. sunnyheel have evacuated our St. Petersburg home for higher ground following a grueling exercise in storm prep anticipating the worst case scenario and with the wreckage of Helene fresh in our minds and mostly still in our neighborhoods.

This thread stirs a lot of memories and emotions over decades. The most important thing to recognize is the effort and obvious conscientiousness that Snoop exercised voluntarily on behalf of everyone in our Board community. Big thanks for your years of service and now your willingness to expose us to your inner workings.

That said, moderation was the impetus for my disillusionment with the old board but perhaps not in the way that most of the complainers describe. Their gripes are about what they view as unfair treatment due to partisan bias, but I perceived the problem as capriciousness.

We all know that enforcement of the “no personal attacks” was uneven and therefore perceived as random or, in the eyes of the perpetually aggrieved, motivated by that librul bias. In reality, the moderators heard so much rightist whinging about bias, they overcompensated at times by heavy-handed enforcement against liberals. Case in point: my posting was oftentimes inflected by provocation and rhetorical embellishment. I was warned not to use the term Uncle Tom as applied to Black politicians and pundits who traded in racist tropes (that would be easily recognized as such if published by a white author) in pursuit of career advancement or the approval of white racist audiences/benefactors. I felt that banning this term was a token gesture to assuage the whiners and not a real call out of any form of hate speech.

In search of an alternative to this verboten term that fully captured the essence of these players of the (self-hating) race card, I came upon the term kapo which is a reference to the Jews who were vilified by their cohorts for aiding Nazi persecution and genocide in order to draw the favor of their captors. Despite the effective obsolescence of this term and its lack of any bigoted connotation, the “hive” determined that this would be an opportune occasion to lay down the ban hammer, which I avoided by a promise of compliance.

This is just an example that remains clear to me, but we all know how sensitive the mods became to the aspersions of librul bias. Hasta la vista Ovshinsky and vojak.

The thing that agitated me the most, though, was the absolute refusal of moderation for violations of the clear prohibition on posting copyrighted material. Certain posters had developed the annoying habit of copying and pasting whole columns and essays from other publications. Without enforcement, the gruesome habit spread to “re-tweeting” twitter posts, and soon the board’s tone and content shifted to that of mainstream social media.

I kept visiting despite the downgrade and the non-responsiveness of moderation to my appeals until other factors prompted my decision to jump ship.

So I want to ask Snoop, who has been so earnest in defense of his dedication to the preservation of board standards, why this constant, arrant flouting of clear rules was allowed to persist.

Now I’m pretty sure Snoop was not the determining authority on this practice of non-enforcement, but I would like to know how it can be such a necessary burden to enforce some rules and contrariwise for others, all developed presumably as a setting of standards.

Finally I want to make clear that I favor a more free-wheeling experience (with the usual exceptions for hate speech, doxxing, and personal attacks) and give big kudos for the way Rock has set this place up. On this thread some of the posters who were penalized for their bad faith style have outed themselves for righteousness application of the super ignore hammer.
Whoa! Great poast. First, I hope your evacuation is swift and non-eventful. Hopefully, your abode in St. Pete survives unscathed.
Secondly, "Arrant" - I'll admit, I had to look up in my Funk & Wagnalls. I was thinking: "surely he meant errant", but I digress.
Third, as a song-writer, I'm all about ©
Finally, super ignore hammer rules this board. It's quite possible that Rock and nyc can moderate this board by doing nothing but sending a couple of PMs.
 
First, I want to report that Mr. and Ms. sunnyheel have evacuated our St. Petersburg home for higher ground following a grueling exercise in storm prep anticipating the worst case scenario and with the wreckage of Helene fresh in our minds and mostly still in our neighborhoods.

This thread stirs a lot of memories and emotions over decades. The most important thing to recognize is the effort and obvious conscientiousness that Snoop exercised voluntarily on behalf of everyone in our Board community. Big thanks for your years of service and now your willingness to expose us to your inner workings.

That said, moderation was the impetus for my disillusionment with the old board but perhaps not in the way that most of the complainers describe. Their gripes are about what they view as unfair treatment due to partisan bias, but I perceived the problem as capriciousness.

We all know that enforcement of the “no personal attacks” was uneven and therefore perceived as random or, in the eyes of the perpetually aggrieved, motivated by that librul bias. In reality, the moderators heard so much rightist whinging about bias, they overcompensated at times by heavy-handed enforcement against liberals. Case in point: my posting was oftentimes inflected by provocation and rhetorical embellishment. I was warned not to use the term Uncle Tom as applied to Black politicians and pundits who traded in racist tropes (that would be easily recognized as such if published by a white author) in pursuit of career advancement or the approval of white racist audiences/benefactors. I felt that banning this term was a token gesture to assuage the whiners and not a real call out of any form of hate speech.

In search of an alternative to this verboten term that fully captured the essence of these players of the (self-hating) race card, I came upon the term kapo which is a reference to the Jews who were vilified by their cohorts for aiding Nazi persecution and genocide in order to draw the favor of their captors. Despite the effective obsolescence of this term and its lack of any bigoted connotation, the “hive” determined that this would be an opportune occasion to lay down the ban hammer, which I avoided by a promise of compliance.

This is just an example that remains clear to me, but we all know how sensitive the mods became to the aspersions of librul bias. Hasta la vista Ovshinsky and vojak.

The thing that agitated me the most, though, was the absolute refusal of moderation for violations of the clear prohibition on posting copyrighted material. Certain posters had developed the annoying habit of copying and pasting whole columns and essays from other publications. Without enforcement, the gruesome habit spread to “re-tweeting” twitter posts, and soon the board’s tone and content shifted to that of mainstream social media.

I kept visiting despite the downgrade and the non-responsiveness of moderation to my appeals until other factors prompted my decision to jump ship.

So I want to ask Snoop, who has been so earnest in defense of his dedication to the preservation of board standards, why this constant, arrant flouting of clear rules was allowed to persist.

Now I’m pretty sure Snoop was not the determining authority on this practice of non-enforcement, but I would like to know how it can be such a necessary burden to enforce some rules and contrariwise for others, all developed presumably as a setting of standards.

Finally I want to make clear that I favor a more free-wheeling experience (with the usual exceptions for hate speech, doxxing, and personal attacks) and give big kudos for the way Rock has set this place up. On this thread some of the posters who were penalized for their bad faith style have outed themselves for righteousness application of the super ignore hammer.
I'm going to try to summarize your various points and then respond to them.

You complain that you were not allowed to use the racially-charged historical terms "Uncle Tom" and "kapo" to describe current folks who you believe to be acting against the best interest of those in their race as a whole. As we explained to you at the time, the use of racist or racially-derogatory terms is forbidden by IC rules as a means to prevent racially-bigoted posts. There's no exemption for "But I'm using these racist/racially-derogatory terms in a good way". And so you - along with everyone else - were forbidden to use them.

Also, vojak and Ovshinsky weren't banned as a "defense" against liberal bias, they were banned because they showed up on threads to with the intent to make the thread all about them and didn't actually engage with other posters and their posts. Their bans were the result of routinely failing to engage in decent discussions with others and instead showing up mostly to make the thread about themselves...which was deemed a form of trolling.

You also mention the allowance of personal attacks. With the ZZLP, the site PTB (independent of the mods themselves) decided to allow an experiment to loosen the rules on one board regarding personal attacks. Before loosening this rule, a lot of time was spent by posters whining about personal attacks and attempting to utilize the mods as a weapon against posters they disliked. Many posters worked very, very hard to push and push to determine exactly where the line of personal attacks was and then camped out on it. There were many recurring discussions regarding which exact terms were prohibited and would get someone a ban and which were prohibited and would only get someone a tsk-tsk from the mods and which were deemed acceptable. Instead, the rules against personal attacks were loosened so that only worst of insults (bigoted slurs/attacks, obscenities, attacks on family, etc) were deemed worthy of mod action. It didn't do much to prevent folks from attacking each other or whining about the attacks, but it very much got the mods out of the middle in determining the exact "naughty line" with regard to personal attacks and made it much clearer and easier for mods to address personal attacks. It was fairly successful in getting the mods out of the minutae of personal attacks, but at a tradeoff of increasing the vehemence of personal attacks used.

The moderation around sharing of copyrighted material was lacking in certain areas. Good message board discussions thrive on access to information regarding the subjects under discussion and, unfortunately, that information may often be in copyrighted work. There likely could and should have been better enforcement of copyright on the board. Some of that was probably that it takes quite a bit of work to examine every thread for copyrighted work and some was likely that sharing such work led to better discussion, but that's more of an explanation than any real excuse. That thought doesn't extend to social media meant to be distributed to the public such as tweets. There is no expectation of copyright on a tweet because the entire purpose of twitter is to publish thoughts into the public square for consideration and further distribution. It'd be like taking out a billboard on a heavily trafficked road and then complaining that people are looking at said billboard. There were no copyright issues with allowing the sharing of tweets.

I think that covers all of your concerns. If I missed something, please point it out and I'll address it.
 
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