Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

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ZenMode said:
Hamas uses women and children to kill Israelis. Hamas makes them "soldiers". As a result, IDF is in a no win situation where they have to consider literally any and every person as a threat... armed with weapons or explosives. Remember, IDF killed 3 hostages, who were trying to surrender to them, because they thought they were terrorists.

Yep, Hamas should stop using refugee camps and other civilian locations to hide their terrorists leaders.

I think the civilian death toll would be astronomically higher if IDF was behaving in the way people like you portray them. Again, they are fighting against people who WANT to maximize civilian death.

EDIT: I think Israel should allow non-UNRWA aid in.
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wow, over a year and a half of the genocide and you still believe these lies. So, you're justifying Israeli troops sniping children in the head because of false rumors that Hamas makes them soldiers? With that logic, all Israelis are ok to be targeted because they are all required to serve in the IDF.

You also think dropping a bunker buster bomb on tents is fine because Israel claims, without showing proof, that a Hamas leader was in the tents? Are you that gullible?

You're also fine with them starving the whole population? Other aid groups have tried to enter but have been barred. However, you believe the Israeli excuses over and over again.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
Even if we are to believe Israel wants all Palestinians dead, we know Hamas wants all Israeli citizens dead. So then it goes to the next level. Hamas kills gays for being gay. Does Israel? No. Supposedly, Palestinians don’t support Hamas. That’s what we hear at least. Israel overall supports their government.
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So this is about gay rights now? Do you think Israeli bombs stop before they hit to ask if there is a gay person under it?

So, you say Hamas wants to get of Israelis, however, Israel is LITERALLY doing that to Palestinians, and you need more proof? They are literally starving all the Palestinians in Gaza and have destroyed/damaged nearly every building in Gaza and they want to expel what remaining survivors there are. Then, they are literally starting the same thing in the West Bank, yet, you need more evidence? Literally thousands of Palestinian children are about to starve to death because of Israel. What is your justification for that?
 
RaiGuy said:
wow, over a year and a half of the genocide and you still believe these lies.
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There's been no genocide. If Israel wanted to commit genocide, they could. About 50k civilians, over a year and a half, isn't reflective of genocide.
RaiGuy said:
So, you're justifying Israeli troops sniping children in the head because of false rumors that Hamas makes them soldiers?
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False rumors my ass.
RaiGuy said:
With that logic, all Israelis are ok to be targeted because they are all required to serve in the IDF.
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IDF, until proven otherwise, follows protocols for war, which include uniforms that allow them to be identified as military personnel. IDF, until proven otherwise, has not used non-military Israeli women or children in battle.
RaiGuy said:
You also think dropping a bunker buster bomb on tents is fine because Israel claims, without showing proof, that a Hamas leader was in the tents? Are you that gullible?
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I don't know what situation you're referring to, specifically.
RaiGuy said:
You're also fine with them starving the whole population? Other aid groups have tried to enter but have been barred. However, you believe the Israeli excuses over and over again.
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No. I added a line saying that I thought Israel should allow in non-UNRWA provided aid though, again, if Hamas didn't insist on wrongly holding Israeli civilians, Israel wouldn't be trying to leverage Palestinian civilians to get them back.

But, you're continued concern for only one side of the equation, the terrorist side, is noted.
 
superrific said:
Neither side wants that. Maybe some extremists on both sides, but the whole organizations? No. Not even close.

It's impossible to look at the actual facts on the ground and come away with an understanding that there is anything but perfect equivalence between the sides. This didn't start in 2023. Gaza was illegally blockaded for a decade and a half, with gross human rights violations committed by the Israelis.

Again, why does everything have to be black and white for you guys? Is it really hard for you to comprehend that there are no good guys in a conflict like this. If Israel was good, the situation would have been resolved long ago. Same with Hamas.
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How similar in "goodness" do you thing Hamas and Israel are? Scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being Hitler-esque and 10 being Mother Theresa?
 
superrific said:
In my view, this is the worst of all.

I mean, starvation of a civilian population has been verboten for centuries. It's long been considered a human rights violation, even before the idea of human rights was really even a thing.
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All Hamas has to do is release the hostages.... It's literally that easy. Why wouldn't they to get food to their citizens?
 
ZenMode said:
How similar in "goodness" do you thing Hamas and Israel are? Scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being Hitler-esque and 10 being Mother Theresa?
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I don't normally weigh in on this conflict but this is actually an interesting question. On 10/7/23, I would have put Israel at a 4 and Hamas at a 2. On 10/9/23, I would have put Israel at a 5 and Hamas at a 1. After the past 18 months, I'd put both Hamas and Israel at 1. Talk about squandering your lead. I'm actually considering whether GWB died a few years ago and was reincarnated as Bibi.
 
lawtig02 said:
I don't normally weigh in on this conflict but this is actually an interesting question. On 10/7/23, I would have put Israel at a 4 and Hamas at a 2. On 10/9/23, I would have put Israel at a 5 and Hamas at a 1. After the past 18 months, I'd put both Hamas and Israel at 1. Talk about squandering your lead. I'm actually considering whether GWB died a few years ago and was reincarnated as Bibi.
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"On 10/7/23, I would have put Israel at a 4 and Hamas at a 2"

lol :rolleyes:
 
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ZenMode said:
All Hamas has to do is release the hostages.... It's literally that easy. Why wouldn't they to get food to their citizens?
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They were releasing them as part of the ceasefire and Netanyahu broke it. He has turned down multiple deals to have them released. If you still believe it's about the hostages, I don't know what to tell you. Also, why don't you care about the Palestinian hostages that Israel has been even before Oct 7th? They label them as prisoners, but the majority have not been charged with a crime and many of them are children.
 
RaiGuy said:
They were releasing them as part of the ceasefire and Netanyahu broke it. He has turned down multiple deals to have them released. If you still believe it's about the hostages, I don't know what to tell you. Also, why don't you care about the Palestinian hostages that Israel has been even before Oct 7th? They label them as prisoners, but the majority have not been charged with a crime and many of them are children.
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Again... why wouldn't Hamas ,TODAY, release all the hostages to get aid their citizens?
 
ZenMode said:
Again... why wouldn't Hamas ,TODAY, release all the hostages to get aid their citizens?
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If it were me, I'd be afraid Israel would be even worse without the prisoners. But maybe that's misguided. It doesn't seem like having the prisoners has done much to hold back Israel.

At this point I think Bibi has weathered the storm of the prisoners' families. They are an advantage for him now because he can say he's not going to have a ceasefire or a peace treaty until Hamas gives back those prisoners and Hamas does not seem inclined to do it because they don't know what Bibi will do the next day.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
If it were me, I'd be afraid Israel would be even worse without the prisoners. But maybe that's misguided. It doesn't seem like having the prisoners has done much to hold back Israel.

At this point I think Bibi has weathered the storm of the prisoners' families. They are an advantage for him now because he can say he's not going to have a ceasefire or a peace treaty until Hamas gives back those prisoners and Hamas does not seem inclined to do it because they don't know what Bibi will do the next day.
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Bibi literally said that they are currently prioritizing the “destruction of Hamas” over the safety of the remaining hostages. Zen isn’t up to date on the talking points.
 
Paine said:
Bibi literally said that they are currently prioritizing the “destruction of Hamas” over the safety of the remaining hostages. Zen isn’t up to date on the talking points.
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They can work to get the hostages released at the same time as prioritizing destroying Hamas.

They've also said recently that they are denying aid pending release of hostages.
 
Paine said:
Yet you only seem to care about terrorism and extremism when it comes from brown people. Curious.
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Ah yes... when all else fails, play the race card.

Unfortunately for you, I don't give two shits what you believe. I am more than happy to defend my position with facts.
 
ZenMode said:
Ah yes... when all else fails, play the race card.

Unfortunately for you, I don't give two shits what you believe. I am more than happy to defend my position with facts.
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I think I’ve made a name for myself on this board as someone who does the opposite of “playing the race card.” I do, however, call a spade a spade.

You’re one of the most prevalent archetypes on the internet. The “libertarian” who imbibed way too much Sam Harris during the Iraq War years.
 
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