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Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume
- Thread starter nycfan
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ZenMode
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If you consider that Hamas killed about 1100 civilians in 8 hours, using nothing but knives and handheld guns, the fact that IDF has only killed 50k in 1.5 years is a fairly impressive accomplishment.
If IDF only matched Hamas' rate, they'd be near 500k civilian deaths by now.
RaiGuy
Esteemed Member
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Ah yes, they try to limit them by all the headshots at children and women. Just watch the interviews with American doctors that say how they saw countless number of children with sniper shots to the head. Let me guess, there’s a Hamas guy that was standing right behind them and they coincidentally walked run in front of the bullet.
Using bunker busting bombs on tents for refugees is not trying to limit civilian death. Anyone who believes that is either an idiot or has their head in the sand.
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There are additional, much less charitable, and highly probable options, unfortunately.
You’re trying to engage a troll in a rational discussion.
ZenMode
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We've had this discussion before. I'm quite sure there are bad, immoral IDF soldiers who do terrible things. There is also the reality the IDF are in an impossible situation because Hamas will not only use civilian women and children as human shields, but will also arm them or use the as explosive devices.
ZenMode
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Nope. Gaza has 15k per square mile and a population of over 3 million. The fact that Israel, with actual military weapons/explosivs, has killed only 100/day on average should be commended, not condemned. Again Hamas killed 1100 in a matter of hours with guns and knives“only 50k civilian deaths”
Labeling inconvenient or uncomfortable details as trolling allows people to keep believing what they want to believe.
RaiGuy
Esteemed Member
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The actual number is much, much higher than that.
HintonJamesHeel
Esteemed Member
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Like every war ever.
ZenMode
Inconceivable Member
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Okay. Even if you doubled the number, it would still pale in comparison to what Hamas accomplished in 8 hours with inferior weaponry And that's with Hamas not caring if civilians die.
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Rai,
I appreciate and respect your posts.
You’re slamming your head into a wall responding to the troll.
No, it literally doesn't. Yes, Hamas intended to kill those folks and that was fucking evil. But they have not continued to do so. So we have a very simple math problem. 1100 plus innocent Israeli dead versus 50000 plus innocent Palestinian dead. There is no comparison. And before you say, well people die in war. There have been very severe critiques of Israeli targeting techniques (by US Military targeters) that state that their use of AI to pick targets and their willingness to risk collateral damage numbers that far exceed what the US military is willing to risk. The civilian casualty rates in this war are far in excess of the wars that have come before it.
They haven’t continued to do so because they have been physically unable to do so. That’s not charity on Hamas’s part. They’d kill every single Israeli if they could.
Yes, but they haven't. I fully concede that this is not charity. But Hamas does not equal the Palestinian people.
And Israel has continued to kill civilians.. The numbers of deaths are horribly disproportionate.
I know - you're right. But damnit, I just can't help myself sometimes. There are fleeting moments when he seems to be willing to listen to reason.
ZenMode
Inconceivable Member
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I agree that there's no comparison if you're talking about gross numbers. My point always that Hamas was able to kill over 100 per hour with minimal weapons. Israel, with legit military weapons, capable of killing hundreds at at time, is only killing 100 per DAY. Hamas - 100 per hour. Israel 100 per day. And Gaza is a very densely populated area. 15k per square mile. With Israel's weapons, the dense population AND the fact that civilians are being used as human shields, killing 100 per day, on average, is pretty amazing and doesn't happen by chance.
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Again, no, it is not amazing. They could be prosecuting this war according to US military guidelines and be killing FAR fewer civilians.
Your argument is tantamount to: the LAPD kills far fewer civilians in accidental crossfire shootings per day than the gangs kill on purpose per day, so we should celebrate! It is apples to oranges.
I hold Israel to a much higher standard than Hamas, in the same way that I would hold the US to a much higher standard than any terrorists they might be fighting, in the same way that I hold the Police to a higher standard than criminals.
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That’s in part why he’s become the most successful troll on the board. He knows how to keep fish on the line with juuuust enough “reasonableness” to cover for the bigotry, whataboutism, and fascist apologia. In truth, he’s maga with decent grammar and vocabulary. He'll typically respond to a post like this one with another form of troll along the lines of "free-thinking" pablum or self-victimization trope or "EcHO ChamBer" spinal reflex. It's all bullshit.
I mean, as you know, right now he's arguing the rate of a single day of slaughter is equivalent to, or worse, than more than 50k civilians slaughtered, just because the 50k happened over a couple of years. That's not logical, moral, nor good faith.
