Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

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ZenMode said:
And has nothing to do with IDF or the Israeli government.
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Oh, but it does. Here's how it goes down:

1. Israeli settlers show up on land owned by Palestinians, informing them of their intent to take the land and will the Palestinians please leave. Well, not the settlers themselves -- their representatives.

2. When the Palestinians predictably refuse, the settlers go to the Israeli government to get what amounts to official permission to take the land. Keep in mind that this is unlawful, as the land is owned by Palestinians and is not under the proper jurisdiction of the Israeli government.

3. They show up with the illegal transfer documents, along with the IDF or other Israeli government security forces.

4. If the owners of the land refuse to leave, they are roughed up by some combination of the settlers and the military. If the Palestinians try to defend themselves, the security forces open fire. Often, it's not the landowners who get killed but crowds who jeer the illegal actions. Lots of shootings into angry but peaceful crowds.

5. In most of these cases, the Palestinians are completely unarmed, or the IDF has disarmed them (the landowners primarily). The deaths are of people who pose no threat to anyone there. They do, however, insult the Israelis and that, apparently, is enough to warrant a death sentence as their land gets stolen.

6. In other cases, the military doesn't get involved because the government won't grant the permission. I don't know why not; I think it's usually some diplomatic pressure but I don't really know. In any event, the settlers then take matters into their own hands and raid the residences on the land heavily armed. The result is the same: dead Palestinians. Israel then refuses to prosecute the settlers or even make them pay a fine or even prevent them from taking the land whose inhabitants they murdered.

If you don't think the Israeli government is implicated here -- I mean, whatever dude. There's a reason why virtually the whole world condemns these illegal takings and killings on the West Bank, and it's not fucking anti-semitism. Anti-muslim sentiment is far stronger in Europe than anti-Jewish sentiment and yet.
 
Calheel said:
is that just a feeling you have or is there some data to back that up?
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Data. I read about this a while back, but it's also quite evident. The successful nationalist parties are often expressly anti-Muslim and they do well for that reason. Meloni didn't get elected because she went after Jews. She got elected because she went after immigrants, especially Muslims from their south.
 


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At least 31 people were killed and scores were wounded on Sunday as they were on their way to receive food in the Gaza Strip, according to health officials and multiple witnesses. The witnesses said Israeli forces fired on crowds around a kilometer (1,000 yards) away from an aid site run by an Israeli-backed foundation.

The army released a brief statement saying it was “currently unaware of injuries caused by (Israeli military) fire within the Humanitarian Aid distribution site. The matter is still under review.”

The foundation said in a statement that it delivered aid “without incident” early on Sunday and has denied previous accounts of chaos and gunfire around its sites, which are in Israeli military zones where independent access is limited.…”
 
nycfan said:


“
At least 31 people were killed and scores were wounded on Sunday as they were on their way to receive food in the Gaza Strip, according to health officials and multiple witnesses. The witnesses said Israeli forces fired on crowds around a kilometer (1,000 yards) away from an aid site run by an Israeli-backed foundation.

The army released a brief statement saying it was “currently unaware of injuries caused by (Israeli military) fire within the Humanitarian Aid distribution site. The matter is still under review.”

The foundation said in a statement that it delivered aid “without incident” early on Sunday and has denied previous accounts of chaos and gunfire around its sites, which are in Israeli military zones where independent access is limited.…”
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U.S. sources are claiming there was no evidence of firing on crowds at the aide site and pro-Israeli social media is full of claims that Hamas fired on Palestinians near but not at the aide site. The linked AP report notes that their reporter arrived after the alleged incident and could confirm mass casualties at the hospital but had not been present for the incident itself.
 
www.theguardian.com

Palestinians gunned down while trying to reach food aid site in Gaza, hospital says

Witnesses say Israeli forces opened fire on people near distribution point run by Israel-backed foundation
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

More than 30 Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire on Sunday as they went to receive food at an aid distribution point set up by an Israeli-backed foundation in Gaza, according to witnesses,, with a hospital run by the Red Cross confirming it was treating many wounded.

Witnesses told the Associated Press that Israeli forces had opened fire as they headed toward the aid distribution site in Rafah run by the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF).


“There were many martyrs, including women,” Ibrahim Abu Saoud, 40, told the Associated Press. “We were about 300 metres away from the military.”

Saoud said he saw many people with gunshot wounds, including a young man who he said had died at the scene. “We weren’t able to help him,” he said.

Media reports said dozens of people were being treated at the hospital after the latest incident at the controversial site in Rafah. Officials at the field hospital did not say who opened fire but added that another 175 people were wounded. An Associated Press reporter saw dozens of people being treated at the hospital.

The local Palestinian Red Crescent, affiliated with the international Red Cross, said its medical teams had recovered the bodies of 23 Palestinians and treated another 23 injured near an aid collection site in Rafah. Local health authorities said at least 31 bodies had so far arrived at Nasser hospital.

The Red Crescent also reported that a further 14 Palestinians were injured near a separate aid distribution site in central Gaza.

The Israel Defense Forces said they were “currently unaware” of injuries caused by their fire at the aid site, but that they were looking into it. The foundation claimed in a statement that it delivered aid “without incident” early on Sunday and has denied previous accounts of chaos and gunfire around its sites, which are in Israeli military zones where independent access is limited.
 
superrific said:
Oh, but it does. Here's how it goes down:

1. Israeli settlers show up on land owned by Palestinians, informing them of their intent to take the land and will the Palestinians please leave. Well, not the settlers themselves -- their representatives.

2. When the Palestinians predictably refuse, the settlers go to the Israeli government to get what amounts to official permission to take the land. Keep in mind that this is unlawful, as the land is owned by Palestinians and is not under the proper jurisdiction of the Israeli government.

3. They show up with the illegal transfer documents, along with the IDF or other Israeli government security forces.

4. If the owners of the land refuse to leave, they are roughed up by some combination of the settlers and the military. If the Palestinians try to defend themselves, the security forces open fire. Often, it's not the landowners who get killed but crowds who jeer the illegal actions. Lots of shootings into angry but peaceful crowds.

5. In most of these cases, the Palestinians are completely unarmed, or the IDF has disarmed them (the landowners primarily). The deaths are of people who pose no threat to anyone there. They do, however, insult the Israelis and that, apparently, is enough to warrant a death sentence as their land gets stolen.

6. In other cases, the military doesn't get involved because the government won't grant the permission. I don't know why not; I think it's usually some diplomatic pressure but I don't really know. In any event, the settlers then take matters into their own hands and raid the residences on the land heavily armed. The result is the same: dead Palestinians. Israel then refuses to prosecute the settlers or even make them pay a fine or even prevent them from taking the land whose inhabitants they murdered.

If you don't think the Israeli government is implicated here -- I mean, whatever dude. There's a reason why virtually the whole world condemns these illegal takings and killings on the West Bank, and it's not fucking anti-semitism. Anti-muslim sentiment is far stronger in Europe than anti-Jewish sentiment and yet.
Click to expand...
There have obviously been disputes over land, but that's an awfully big generalization when each situation involving settlers/Palestinians is different.

A Google search finds stories about settlers being arrested by IDF and publicly admonished by Netanyahu.
 
The situation between the violent settlers and Palestinians seems like a mess. Hatfield and McCoy type of thing. A lot of he-said, she-said and probably often difficult for authorities to figure out. It does seem too messy to make broad-brush assumptions.

Shin Bet official caught admitting to settler arrests without evidence​

[/HEADING=2]The Prime Minister's Office issued a statement calling the recording "a shocking revelation" and "a real danger to democracy."

www.israelhayom.com

Shin Bet official caught admitting to settler arrests without evidence

The Prime Minister's Office issued a statement calling the recording "a shocking revelation" and "a real danger to democracy."
www.israelhayom.com www.israelhayom.com
 
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