Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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mpaer said:
This "lets have massive trade with russia " stuff is sick..........why the hell should we?
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They don't even have much to trade. Just minerals mostly. I guess Trump sees Russia as a potential export market but he should probably look at a map. China is much closer and they have spare capacity.
 
nycfan said:
As to the EDIT NOTE, I’m 🤔 not sure I follow hat happened.

In any event, I think ending the war is a Trump priority as it makes it easier for him to proceed with his strange fixation on improving economic relations with Russia.
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Trump believes Putin is the richest man in the world and he may be. Trump wants some of that corrupt glory. Doubt "economic relations with Russia" has anything to do with it.

Just my opinion, but I think Putin has made it clear to Trump that for Putin to play ball with him , will require Trump handing Putin a peace settlement to Putin's liking. Trump is all confused and thinks a ceasefire will do the trick. That's a Nyet.
 

Nobody in Ukraine Thinks the War Will End Soon​

Ukrainians are confident that they can continue fighting, even without the same level of American support.

GIFT LINK --> Nobody in Ukraine Thinks the War Will End Soon

"... The Russian negotiating team in Istanbul did not say it wanted to end the war. On the contrary, the head of the Russian delegation, Vladimir Medinsky, told the Ukrainians, “We fought Sweden for 21 years. How long are you ready to fight?” (The Great Northern War, to which Medinsky was presumably referring, concluded in 1721. Also, Medinsky is best-known not for any battlefield heroics but for rewriting school textbooks).

At the same meeting, the Russians demanded that Ukraine withdraw from land that Ukraine controls; threatened to annex more provinces, something they have been trying and failing to do for three years; and insulted a member of the Ukrainian delegation, who lost a nephew in the fighting. “Maybe some of those sitting here at the table will lose more of their loved ones,” Medinsky sneered.

Ukrainians find none of this surprising, because they have been listening to this kind of language for three years. What they do find surprising is the American president’s tolerance for what looks to them like open mockery. President Donald Trump says he wants a peace negotiation. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky prepared for a peace negotiation. The Russian president turned it into a farce, and will likely proceed with the farce, stringing out Trump for as long as possible and agreeing to more phone calls and meetings in order to avoid new sanctions, distract attention from Russia’s ongoing war crimes, and make the U.S. appear weak.

I will not here offer a full explanation for why Trump does not understand the game that Putin is playing, one that is obvious to absolutely everyone else. I will note only that Trump repeatedly misunderstands Putin, overrates his alleged friendship with Putin, and often attributes to Putin motives that are really his own. “Putin is tired of this whole thing,” Trump said on Fox News. “He’s not looking good. And he wants to look good.” In reality, it is Trump who is tired of “this whole thing,” Trump who’s not looking good, and Trump who wants to look good. ..."

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So " Ukrainians think they can continue fighting". I've thought for the last six months that the evidence shows they should think that. Glad to hear it.

Ukrainians may be surprised by Trump, but its doubtful Zelensky is. He's proved adept at managing Trump. Which is a win, because it minimizes the damage Trump could really do if he was ignored.

Trump simply thinks a ceasefire is a win for him. It means he can go around bragging how he stopped the war. It feeds his obsession with being a deal maker. Doesn't matter to him if after a week the ceasefire falls apart. He then would blame others, most likely Ukraine for a failure. Plus, a ceasefire feeds Trumps five minutes of success mentality.

Putin knows all this about Trump. And Putin knows that the minute he gives Trump a ceasefire, that he loses all leverage he has with Trump.
 
BlueSmoke said:
So " Ukrainians think they can continue fighting". I've thought for the last six months that the evidence shows they should think that. Glad to hear it.

Ukrainians may be surprised by Trump, but its doubtful Zelensky is. He's proved adept at managing Trump. Which is a win, because it minimizes the damage Trump could really do if he was ignored.

Trump simply thinks a ceasefire is a win for him. It means he can go around bragging how he stopped the war. It feeds his obsession with being a deal maker. Doesn't matter to him if after a week the ceasefire falls apart. He then would blame others, most likely Ukraine for a failure. Plus, a ceasefire feeds Trumps five minutes of success mentality.

Putin knows all this about Trump. And Putin knows that the minute he gives Trump a ceasefire, that he loses all leverage he has with Trump.
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Also, Trump has been quite public about his obsession in winning a Nobel Peace Prize. Obama has one and Trump is always trying to compare himself to Obama.
 
I'm just imagining this morning what Pubs would be saying if Biden had (1) campaigned on a promise that he'd end a foreign war before he even took office, (2) sided repeatedly with the aggressor, (3) publicly chastised the invaded country, (4) failed for 100+ days to do anything except make the problem worse, and then (5) after a two-hour phone call with our chief global antagonist, thrown up his hands and said that maybe the brand new Pope could solve it.

Trump is destroying our international credibility day after day after day. We've never looked weaker, and anyone who can't see that has no ability to distinguish strength from weakness.
 
Milk and Cookies said:
Also, Trump has been quite public about his obsession in winning a Nobel Peace Prize. Obama has one and Trump is always trying to compare himself to Obama.
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Yep, somehow I think he believes he can get a Nobel simply by getting to a ceasefire. And even if someone told him that to get the prize he would actually have to negotiate a settlement...........he would punt. He's not capable of doing that. North Korea is one example. When was the last time we have even heard Trump say a word about his "love letter" buddy?
 
lawtig02 said:
I'm just imagining this morning what Pubs would be saying if Biden had (1) campaigned on a promise that he'd end a foreign war before he even took office, (2) sided repeatedly with the aggressor, (3) publicly chastised the invaded country, (4) failed for 100+ days to do anything except make the problem worse, and then (5) after a two-hour phone call with our chief global antagonist, thrown up his hands and said that maybe the brand new Pope could solve it.

Trump is destroying our international credibility day after day after day. We've never looked weaker, and anyone who can't see that has no ability to distinguish strength from weakness.
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Agree on all five points. Kinda wonder when Democrats should start shaming Trump for not pushing for Lindsey Graham's Ukraine Support Bill.
 
If Putin doesn't start making concessions soon, we may eventually get to where most of you want to be in this conflict:

*more sanctions against Russia
*more support for Ukraine so the slaughter can continue
*endless war of attrition - which eventually favors Russia

But I don't get why you are so hostile towards Trump for at least trying to reach a settlement of this conflict. Do you think talking with Putin for 2+ hours is better than ZERO conversations with Putin for 2+ years? I get you hate him and assign every worst possible motive for all of his actions but can't you just let the process continue and see what happens? The Russians are famous "grinder" negotiators who love to wear down their negotiating partners.

Every single person in this country knows what Trump meant when he said he'd solve this conflict on day one with one phone call. That's Trump talk for his getting a plan in place within a reasonable time of his taking office. It might happen.
 
Ramrouser said:
If Putin doesn't start making concessions soon, we may eventually get to where most of you want to be in this conflict:

*more sanctions against Russia
*more support for Ukraine so the slaughter can continue
*endless war of attrition - which eventually favors Russia

But I don't get why you are so hostile towards Trump for at least trying to reach a settlement of this conflict. Do you think talking with Putin for 2+ hours is better than ZERO conversations with Putin for 2+ years? I get you hate him and assign every worst possible motive for all of his actions but can't you just let the process continue and see what happens? The Russians are famous "grinder" negotiators who love to wear down their negotiating partners.

Every single person in this country knows what Trump meant when he said he'd solve this conflict on day one with one phone call. That's Trump talk for his getting a plan in place within a reasonable time of his taking office. It might happen.
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Personally I am hostile towards trump because he has repeatedly undercut Ukraine.He could have pushed for peace after Increasing Aid to Ukraine
 
Ramrouser said:
If Putin doesn't start making concessions soon, we may eventually get to where most of you want to be in this conflict:

*more sanctions against Russia
*more support for Ukraine so the slaughter can continue
*endless war of attrition - which eventually favors Russia

But I don't get why you are so hostile towards Trump for at least trying to reach a settlement of this conflict. Do you think talking with Putin for 2+ hours is better than ZERO conversations with Putin for 2+ years? I get you hate him and assign every worst possible motive for all of his actions but can't you just let the process continue and see what happens? The Russians are famous "grinder" negotiators who love to wear down their negotiating partners.

Every single person in this country knows what Trump meant when he said he'd solve this conflict on day one with one phone call. That's Trump talk for his getting a plan in place within a reasonable time of his taking office. It might happen.
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Putin doesn’t want this war to end. At no point has he said that. He wants Ukraine gone as a Country.
 
Ramrouser said:
If Putin doesn't start making concessions soon, we may eventually get to where most of you want to be in this conflict:

*more sanctions against Russia
*more support for Ukraine so the slaughter can continue
*endless war of attrition - which eventually favors Russia

But I don't get why you are so hostile towards Trump for at least trying to reach a settlement of this conflict. Do you think talking with Putin for 2+ hours is better than ZERO conversations with Putin for 2+ years? I get you hate him and assign every worst possible motive for all of his actions but can't you just let the process continue and see what happens? The Russians are famous "grinder" negotiators who love to wear down their negotiating partners.

Every single person in this country knows what Trump meant when he said he'd solve this conflict on day one with one phone call. That's Trump talk for his getting a plan in place within a reasonable time of his taking office. It might happen.
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Trump cannot negotiate a settlement in this conflict because he isn’t a rational, neutral arbitrator. He’s personally interested in a particular outcome, favoring a hostile, authoritarian adversary over a Democratic nation that was unjustly attacked under false pretense.

Even setting aside his own vested interests, he’s already revealed that he doesn’t respect Zelensky (who stood up to him years ago), is desperate for Putin’s acceptance, and lacks any understanding of the origins of the conflict or what’s truly at stake for the US and it’s allies.
 
Ramrouser said:
But I don't get why you are so hostile towards Trump for at least trying to reach a settlement of this conflict . . . That's Trump talk for his getting a plan in place within a reasonable time of his taking office
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Because everyone with half a brain knows that's not what he's doing. And a reasonable plan? Trump doesn't have plans. He doesn't even have concepts of them. What about his term so far could be described as proceeding according to a plan? Maybe it's that he's set and reset and postponed and then accelerated tariffs more times in 4 months than his 4 predecessors did combined? Was that it? Or maybe it was DOGE, which steamrolled the government's operations and accomplished nothing since most of the cancelled contracts and fired personnel are being quietly re-signed and re-hired.

Trump's plans are whatever his lackeys whisper in his ear, and his lackeys are ALL on the wrong side of our geopolitical conflicts.
 
Ramrouser said:
But I don't get why you are so hostile towards Trump for at least trying to reach a settlement of this conflict.
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LOL, now if that is all Trump was doing or has done, then there would be no reason for anyone to be hostile toward Trump. So if you were being honest, you wouldn't even ask.
 
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