SCOTUS case: Trans rights for minors

  • Thread starter Thread starter ZenMode
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies: 263
  • Views: 2K
  • Politics 
WaynetheDrain said:
It’s incredible to me, in the Year of Our Lord 2024, that we still have posters on this board propagating the old debunked theory that homosexuality, and now transgenderism, can be “spread” through peer pressure or some sort of “social contagion.” As if, the social derision and outright abuse that those people receive from our close-minded society is ever something that one would openly embrace as a trend.

Fuck, we’ve got some apes among us.
Click to expand...
That is a pretty simplistic approach to the social influence on transgenderism.

Sexuality and gender identity exist on a continuum and are not binary. Like anything on a continuum, social influence plays a significant role in how people choose to identify.

Let's assume that the transgender scale goes from 0-10, with 10 being someone who has always known they were born in the wrong body and never identified with their assigned at birth gender, and 0 being someone like Zen Mode.

If someone is say a 6 or a 7 on that scale and they live in rural Alabama, they are much, much less likely to transition than if they live in Marin County. When people see their friends and family members transitioning, and their social media algorithms extolling the benefits of transitioning, that unquestionably will influence the decision to transition. Of course, it doesn't turn a 1 into a 10, and it likely doesn't change the underlying psychology of a person, but it certainly influences the decision to transition.

And this is true with any identity, be it racism, homosexuality, religious views, political views. The identity we take on is very much influenced by our environment. That is not to say there is not a biological component to identity. Of course there is. And it is often the predominate influence. But environmental factors also play a very significant role -- especially for people that are in the middle of the continuum.
 
Last edited:
Calheel said:
That is a pretty simplistic approach to the social influence on transgenderism.

Sexuality and gender identity exist on a continuum and are not binary. Like anything on a continuum, social influence plays a significant role in how people choose to identify.

Let's assume that the transgender scale goes from 0-10, with 10 being someone who has always known they were born in the wrong body and never identified with their assigned at birth gender, and 0 being someone like Zen Mode.

If someone is say a 6 or a 7 on that scale and they live in rural Alabama, they are much, much less likely to transition than if they live in Marin County. When people see their friends and family members transitioning, and their social media algorithms extolling the benefits of transitioning, that unquestionably will influence the decision to transition. Of course, it doesn't turn a 1 into a 10, and it likely doesn't change the underlying psychology of a person, but it certainly influences the decision to transition.
Click to expand...
I don't think you are disagreeing with that poster, who I take to be essentially talking about the rural Alabama from your example. When it comes to transgenderism, I think not so many places in the country are like Marin County.

Again, the analogy to left-handedness is strong. Or openly gay identities.
 
superrific said:
Said every segregationist ever. I have no idea what lies in your heart, but what you are projecting is in fact an ill feeling and the fact that you refuse to acknowledge it doesn't make it true. Do you let labels rule your life in other areas?
Click to expand...
You are as confident about the need for gender affirming surgery for children as some adults are confident about the need for corporal punishment as a tool for raising good, respectful kids. I am 100% against corporal punishment, paddling in schools, etc. Does that mean I have Ill feelings toward kids? Does that mean I don't want kids to be taught right from wrong? Does that mean I want to take away a right from parents who believe in corporal punishment....

....or does it just mean that i have a different opinion and actually believe my view is protecting kids?
 
ZenMode said:
You are as confident about the need for gender affirming surgery for children as some adults are confident about the need for corporal punishment as a tool for raising good, respectful kids. I am 100% against corporal punishment, paddling in schools, etc. Does that mean I have I'll feelings toward kids? Does that mean I don't want kids to be taught right from wrong? Does that mean I want to take away a right from parents who believe in corporal punishment....

....or does it just mean that i have a different opinion and actually believe my view is actually protecting kids?
Click to expand...
Imo, it's more about your right or the government's right to interfere. You can believe whatever you want no matter how stupid it is.
 
WaynetheDrain said:
I asked you the question, not the other way around. Why is the mixed race example not comparable?
Click to expand...

Because race isn't controllable. And I realize that the proclivity to some orientations probably aren't but the behavior aspect of it is.

But again, I am not trying to debate those things, I am debating about the topic here. You simply cannot justify this type of delusion. And adults shouldn't support minors in that endeavor.
 
EhringhausSouth said:
Because race isn't controllable. And I realize that the proclivity to some orientations probably aren't but the behavior aspect of it is.

But again, I am not trying to debate those things, I am debating about the topic here. You simply cannot justify this type of delusion. And adults shouldn't support minors in that endeavor.
Click to expand...
Would you care to cite something besides your prejudices to support that this is abuse? More particularly, point out why it's yours or anybody else's business. Does it pick your pocket or break your leg?
 
EhringhausSouth said:
Because race isn't controllable. And I realize that the proclivity to some orientations probably aren't but the behavior aspect of it is.

But again, I am not trying to debate those things, I am debating about the topic here. You simply cannot justify this type of delusion. And adults shouldn't support minors in that endeavor.
Click to expand...
“You cannot justify this type of delusion.”

You and your ilk said the same things for decades about interracial marriage and homosexuality. Now it’s transgenders who are the whipping boy/girl.
 
WaynetheDrain said:
I asked you the question, not the other way around. Why is the mixed race example not comparable?
Click to expand...
Is being opposed to mixed race in any way related to age, maturity or an ability to understand the impact of your decisions? Has anyone here expressed a desire to completely ban every transgender person, regardless of age, from hormone treatment or surgery?
 
superrific said:
I don't think you are disagreeing with that poster, who I take to be essentially talking about the rural Alabama from your example. When it comes to transgenderism, I think not so many places in the country are like Marin County.

Again, the analogy to left-handedness is strong. Or openly gay identities.
Click to expand...
I have a relative that moved to Marin County from Western Michigan with three daughters and a son. She now has four sons.
 
superrific said:
In a society where we socialize health costs and give disability payments to people who can't work, it was never about personal choice regardless of whether the driver controls the vehicle or not.

If people want to sign a document waiving their right to medical treatment or supportive therapy in the event of a motorcycle crash, then they go can without a helmet all they want as far as I am concerned. But nobody should respect the freedumb claims as long as they are trying to insulate themselves from the consequences of their behavior. It's the same way that people who refuse a vaccine should be in turn refused medical treatment for the condition that the vaccine could have prevented.
Click to expand...
My original response was because someone tried to equate sear belt laws to controlling someone's medical rights.

They are not equal.
 
EhringhausSouth said:
At least this forum doesn't stifle discussion. I'd have been banned on IC by now.
Click to expand...
Even though I strongly disagree with you on this one, that doesn't mean I don't want to hear what you say here or elsewhere. I may give you hell, though, and you can feel free to give it back.
 
ZenMode said:
Sure, that's your opinion. Again, being a teenager is difficult and confusing. There's a lot going on in their bodies and minds. There's also a social contagion aspect of transgenderism that seems to be more prevalent. Doctors are great, but they aren't perfect.

I'll also add that at least two studies have shown that the odds of suicide actually increase after gender transition surgeries. That also points to the fact that there's something else going on that we don't fully understand in the situation, when we're are removing breasts and transforming genitals of kids.
Click to expand...
Please link those studies as everything I've read disagrees.

And STOP pretending that surgery is step one of this process.
 
UNCatTech said:
Please link those studies as everything I've read disagrees.

And STOP pretending that surgery is step one of this process.
Click to expand...
The study was BS and immediately debunked (it was not actually two studies, btw. It was a meta-analysis citing one study. Our guy here doesn't know what a meta-analysis is, not that it stops him). So then he turned to claiming Scotland is a country. It's always the same with these jokers.
 
ZenMode said:
You are as confident about the need for gender affirming surgery for children as some adults are confident about the need for corporal punishment as a tool for raising good, respectful kids. I am 100% against corporal punishment, paddling in schools, etc. Does that mean I have Ill feelings toward kids? Does that mean I don't want kids to be taught right from wrong? Does that mean I want to take away a right from parents who believe in corporal punishment....

....or does it just mean that i have a different opinion and actually believe my view is protecting kids?
Click to expand...
I'll give you an opportunity to save yourself further humiliation by asking if you can think of anything different between corporal punishment and transgender health care. Can you think of anything at all that might be different. Aw, hell, I'll give you a hint. Look at your sig line.
 
ZenMode said:
You are as confident about the need for gender affirming surgery for children as some adults are confident about the need for corporal punishment as a tool for raising good, respectful kids. I am 100% against corporal punishment, paddling in schools, etc. Does that mean I have Ill feelings toward kids? Does that mean I don't want kids to be taught right from wrong? Does that mean I want to take away a right from parents who believe in corporal punishment....

....or does it just mean that i have a different opinion and actually believe my view is protecting kids?
Click to expand...
Why are you talking about gender affirming surgery for minors? That basically never happens (less than 500 cases from the prior cited stats). I think most/all people on the board would be fine with a government ban on such surgeries for minors.

The much bigger issues is blocking hormones/puberty blockers. That is a much more difficult question with reasonable arguments on both sides. The surgery question is a red herring.
 
Calheel said:
Why are you talking about gender affirming surgery for minors? That basically never happens (less than 500 cases from the prior cited stats). I think most/all people on the board would be fine with a government ban on such surgeries for minors.

The much bigger issues is blocking hormones/puberty blockers. That is a much more difficult question with reasonable arguments on both sides. The surgery question is a red herring.
Click to expand...
On the bolded above, you are incorrect.

I don't mind puberty blocking hormones, which I have said a few times. That is fairly easily reversible. Surgery is obviously a much bigger deal.

My current issue is that supporting a ban, even if temporarily, on gender affirming surgeries is being compared to segregation and bigotry.
 
ZenMode said:
On the bolded above, you are incorrect.

I don't mind puberty blocking hormones, which I have said a few times. That is fairly easily reversible. Surgery is obviously a much bigger deal.

My current issue is that supporting a ban, even if temporarily, on gender affirming surgeries is being compared to segregation and bigotry.
Click to expand...
How do you know? Who has posted that they oppose an age limit on transition surgeries?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top