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But that is not her.I think there are a people who are biologically male at birth, live as a male for some portion of their lives and then decide to live as a female. Those are the people, because of their testosterone levels, who have a distinct advantage in female athletics. I support rules/laws to prevent those people from playing in female sports because it is unfair to biological females with testosterone levels in the normal range for females.
Is any law/rule going to be perfect? No. Will there be cases where there is some ambiguity? Yes and those exceptions can be handled as exceptions.
Then perhaps you can at least allow that it is still a sad case. This poor woman did nothing wrong but compete. There is no reason for her to believe she is anything but a woman. And now she has a large part of the world saying truly awful things about her, a lot of which isn’t true.Imane's situation may have been ambiguous. The most recent report of XY/male karyotypes and elevated testosterone levels, if true, is enough to say she can't compete as a female, IMO.
Yes, it is sad and unfortunate when biology and genetics aren't in sync. I'm going to assume she has a vagina, which is likely the reason she was labeled a female at birth. The rest of her physical appearance (breasts, facial bone structure, etc) certainly appear to be male, along with presumably chromosomes and testosterone levels. It sucks, but this is where empathy, IMO, is a weakness and leads people to do the wrong thing. The wrong thing is allowing a male, in the ways being a male matter athletically, to beat up on females.Then perhaps you can at least allow that it is still a sad case. This poor woman did nothing wrong but compete. There is no reason for her to believe she is anything but a woman. And now she has a large part of the world saying truly awful things about her, a lot of which isn’t true.
Your suggestion that the title of the thread to be changed to “man beats up women” is an example, and part of the reason why many of us look at the situation with sympathy.
You are too clueless to realize that your "wrong thing" is based on empathy. It's just your selective empathy, which is how all empathy-deniers operate. Their empathy is just reason; others' empathy is weakness.It sucks, but this is where empathy, IMO is a weakness and leads people to do the wrong thing. The wrong thing being allowing a male, in the ways being a male matter athletically, to beat up on females.
Nope. My position is based on objective, biological information.You are too clueless to realize that your "wrong thing" is based on empathy. It's just your selective empathy, which is how all empathy-deniers operate. Their empathy is just reason; others' empathy is weakness.
Your position is warmed over misogyny, and nothing more.Nope. My position is based on objective, biological information.
And what is that reason?The same reason you wouldn't support a 20-year-old playing football against 10-year-olds
You still haven't answered my question about chromosome testing.Yes, it is sad and unfortunate when biology and genetics aren't in sync. I'm going to assume she has a vagina, which is likely the reason she was labeled a female at birth. The rest of her physical appearance (breasts, facial bone structure, etc) certainly appear to be male, along with presumably chromosomes and testosterone levels. It sucks, but this is where empathy, IMO, is a weakness and leads people to do the wrong thing. The wrong thing is allowing a male, in the ways being a male matter athletically, to beat up on females.
Surely a vagina doesn't supercede all other sexual characteristics.
I think this is where we go back and read the OP. The last paragraph in particular.Yes, it is sad and unfortunate when biology and genetics aren't in sync. I'm going to assume she has a vagina, which is likely the reason she was labeled a female at birth. The rest of her physical appearance (breasts, facial bone structure, etc) certainly appear to be male, along with presumably chromosomes and testosterone levels. It sucks, but this is where empathy, IMO, is a weakness and leads people to do the wrong thing. The wrong thing is allowing a male, in the ways being a male matter athletically, to beat up on females.
Surely a vagina doesn't supercede all other sexual characteristics.
Very obvious differences in lean mass, speed and strength due to the developmental difference of pre/post pubescent males.And what is that reason?
So what? Some people are strong; some people aren't. 20 year olds fall into the former category; 10 year olds into the latter. I'm not seeing the problem.Very obvious differences in lean mass, speed and strength due to the developmental difference of pre/post pubescent males.
So what? Some people are strong; some people aren't. 20 year olds fall into the former category; 10 year olds into the latter. I'm not seeing the problem.
So, there's a reason we, as a society, already separate male and female sports, divide athletic roughly by age, have weight classes in boxing and wrestling, etc.So what? Some people are strong; some people aren't. 20 year olds fall into the former category; 10 year olds into the latter. I'm not seeing the problem.
Yes, and that reason is empathy. This argument is over. You just conceded. Absent empathy, the 20 year old and 10 year old have competing claims of right. The 10 year old says, "don't beat me up, it hurts." The 20 year old says, "But I love it, and the pleasure I get from it is far more than it hurts you." And absent empathy, we have no particularly useful way of sorting it out -- at least not in any manner that can be applied in these circumstances.So, there's a reason we, as a society, already separate male and female sports, divide athletic roughly by age, have weight classes in boxing and wrestling, etc.
Yes, and that reason is empathy. This argument is over. You just conceded. Absent empathy, the 20 year old and 10 year old have competing claims of right. The 10 year old says, "don't beat me up, it hurts." The 20 year old says, "But I love it, and the pleasure I get from it is far more than it hurts you." And absent empathy, we have no particularly useful way of sorting it out -- at least not in any manner that can be applied in these circumstances.
The reason that we think the 20 year old beating up the 10 year old is wrong is that we have empathy for the 10 year old, and not the 20 year old bully.
Here's live look-in on super and ZenMode. Starts at 2:00. Zen considers himself quite the ninja, I'd imagine.
How to keep males out of female sports is a different question than whether or not we should keep males out of female sports. How a state handles it will likely be different than how the IOC handles it.You still haven't answered my question about chromosome testing.
Are you saying that all females should be chromosome tested to weed out supposed "males" competing in female sports?
Or are you saying that just females with flat chests and masculine features should be chromosome tested?
Or are you saying something else?
Keep in mind that the federation overseeing the testing and doing the leaking is controlled by Putin who likes to stoke these divisive issues in the West -- hence, there is at least some reason to be skeptical about the reported xy result.
LOL. Fairness is a form of empathy.It's not empathy. It's an understanding of the need to promote fairness