ChileG
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Agreed
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Trump / Musk (other than DOGE)
- Thread starter nycfan
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Agreed
ChapelHillSooner
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It isn’t like the TikTok ban is an old law. It passed in December with overwhelming Republican support.
One would think that those Republicans who just passed this ban would stand up to this.
One would think that those Republicans who just passed this ban would stand up to this.
No way they stand up. They’re just a bunch of cowering curs.
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It's true. We are the baddies.
The worst of us leveraged our humanistic and empathetic vulnerabilities to steer the world further towards class and racial systems of alignment. The folks at the top are more concerned with class, but they operate with simple cynicism directed towards the easily manipulated racial tribalists. IMO, combating this second rise of the Nazis will require a severe turn towards cynicism for those who believe in humanism, democracy, and pluralistic society. I recognize that’s a bit antithetical, but we’ve seen time and time again that you can only defeat reactionary bullies with uncompromising pushback.
Paine
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Can you elaborate a bit on how cynicism is necessary for uncompromising pushback? I don’t see those as dependent on one another.
If what you’re saying is: liberals and socialists need to realize that, despite our inclinations towards humanism, most people are voting (or not voting) based on narrowly perceived self-interest, then I agree with that. But that doesn’t mean I myself need to turn to cynicism.
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The second part. Empathetic folk often overestimate the existence of empathy in the world, and particularly within their ideological antagonists. The rising tide trope is idealistic, and historically tenuous.
The empathy gap is a durable characteristic and often far more powerful than a rising tide orientation. Basic in-group, outgroup stuff. I think we do ourselves a disservice if we view rising fascism as a phenomenon we need to convince people out of, because “we all want to do well”, vs realizing this is about mobilization of like-minded (or at least sympathetic) folks who haven’t meaningfully engaged in the political process.
4thgenheel
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Paine
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Go for it. I fully agree with that diagnosis @Healing.
I think this dynamic has manifested itself well in the USAID crisis. People of our persuasion can see the obvious good that foreign aid does. Unfortunately, foreign aid remains one the top things Americans would like to see cut.
Instead of trying to convince people out of this, we need to focus on the core issues we can mobilize people on: education, healthcare, pocketbook issues.
Setting ourselves up as the noble defenders of USAID is only strengthening the picture of Democrats as defenders of crumbling institutions and Republicans as anti-establishment populists.
heelslegup
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When they compain about Dem spending, please keep in mind that for the past 15 Congresses (1995-2024) Repulicans controlled the House 22 of the 30 years and 18 of the 30 in the Senate.
And Rs will control for thne next two as well
history.house.gov
And Rs will control for thne next two as well
Party Government Since 1857 | US House of Representatives: History, Art & Archives
This chart shows the party divisions in both chambers of Congress and the party control of the White House since the advent of the modern party system. When the President's party holds the majority in both chambers, it is considered a unified government. Since 1857, the government has been...
history.house.gov
zeuxis
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Trump administraiton litigation tracker:
www.justsecurity.org
Litigation Tracker: Legal Challenges to Trump Administration Actions
A public resource tracking the legal challenges to the Trump administration's executive orders and actions.
www.justsecurity.org
Shenanigans
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This is incredibly accurate. Mobilize with like-minded people right now, while it's still easy to do. The usefulness of the right to general Americans is essentially nothing. I'm well past cynical.
Eventually the military will be unleashed domestically. My prediction is around the midterms when elon/trump somehow "find" 50 million votes from dead democrats. They will then declare a national emergency, rigged voting systems, setting the stage for constitutional realignment, and a 3rd trump term.
I truly want you all to understand this is a very real possibility, a likely possibility. Mobilize now. Make them uncomfortable, make them suffer, destroy them. It's the only thing their non critically thinking brains can understand.
Paine
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“Here’s the thing: I’m willing to hazard that there is just about nothing—yes, nothing—that Trump and Musk are doing that was not already dreamt up in the philosophies of Rothbard and Francis. Whether it’s come to pass by their court intellectuals’ reading, some structural analogy between the movements to its forebears, or even demonic possession, it kind of doesn’t matter: it’s all there.
Consider “DOGE:” This is exactly the kind of wholesale attack on the state that the anarcho-capitalist Rothbard envisioned and desired. And consider the methods: the public smearing of civil servants and their agencies with misleading or downright false “revelations.” This corresponds precisely to Rothbard’s recommended adoption of McCarthyism as a political technique. What Rothbard understood was that McCarthy was undertaking not an attack on Communists so much as an attack on liberalism and institutions.”
superrific
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You're not wrong about this, but we should be able to talk about things like:
farmers losing crops because they were selling to USAID
the diplomats/USAID staffers in Congo who had to flee, leave all their belongings, and pay their own way home and have not received any reimbursement and don't know if they even had jobs.
You are right that going to bat for USAID itself is probably not a political winner. On the other hand, I don't think anyone really cares. Sometimes you have to shore up the base too.
Paine
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True. There are some specific examples within USAID that make sense for Dems in terms of highlighting a message of: here is what government does for you, even if you don’t see it. I think connecting these threads for Americans is crucial.
I’m interested to see how Dems respond to attempts to dismantle DoE and Medicaid because I think the case is a lot easier to make there. With USAID, people can just say outrageous things about Serbian DEI initiatives or gay theater productions since the effects of USAID aren’t acutely felt in the daily lives of *most* Americans.
superrific
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Talking about the Congo incident also reinforces the impression that Trump doesn't actually give a fuck about Americans. That conduct was way worse than Benghazi. To leave them out to dry like that is unconscionable, even if someone doesn't agree with their political program.
Medicaid is just a gift wrapped with a bow and placed on a platter. Absolutely the Dems will go after that. It's unclear, though, that it will pass. Valdao in CA (spelling is wrong) seems like an obvious no vote on that, and they have only one other vote to spare. Don Bacon is not necessarily a yes vote on that, and there are other Reps in swing districts who are going to be loathe to rip away health care.
Nonetheless, they put it in their budget, we should go after it.
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Loading…
thehill.com
House Republicans plot impeachment against judges blocking Trump, DOGE
“… Rep. Eli Crane (R-Ariz.) said he is drafting articles of impeachment against Judge Paul Engelmayer of the Southern District of New York, who in a ruling last weekend temporarily restricted Musk and DOGE aides from accessing a Treasury Department payment system.
Rep. Andrew Clyde (R-Ga.) is working on an impeachment resolution against Rhode Island District Judge John McConnell Jr. over his ruling halting the Trump administration’s freeze on federal funding.
And Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.), chair of the House Oversight Delivering on Government Efficiency Subcommittee, pledged in a hearing this week while referencing Engelmayer that “We will hold this judge and others who try to stop the will of the people and their elected leaders accountable.”
The actions follow the lead of Trump and the White House, with Trump press secretary Karoline Leavitt asserting Wednesday that “district court judges in liberal districts across the country are abusing their power to unilaterally block President Trump’s basic executive authority.” …”
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They don’t have the votes in the Senate even if anything comes of it in the House, but certainly a form of attempted intimidation at minimum…
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My snap judgement is “fucking do it”.
Republicans are already a group of such unserious, but dangerous, clowns that anything resulting in public fiasco, I welcome. They’re going to create chaos, regardless, let them do so in a blatantly personal, corrupt, and anti rule of law manner.
Light it on fire, fuckers.