Trump Voters already having buyer’s remorse.

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Paine said:
Your complete ignorance of any material analysis is just as stupid as people who claim race and gender wasn’t a factor at all.
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And there it is. Where was I rude to you in a way that would justify this sort of attack?

Here's my advice. Stop claiming, against all reality, that the election that we just saw play out as the most racist POS thing in our history was really about economic policies that would have carried the day if only Kamala had done a better job.

The better play is some combination of:

1. We don't really know exactly what happened. Let's see what happens when all the results are in, researchers look at the best exit polls, etc.
2. Whether or not this election was about racism, material policies are our way forward. We can't fix racial attitudes, but maybe we can offer an alternative. I'm skeptical of that, because I've seen very little evidence of that over the last two decades, but maybe.

Claiming that Kamala or Dems would have done much better if only she had more fully embraced legislation that most people have never heard of just seems weird. Democrats actual legislation doing exactly the things you think they should do did not help Kamala win. Democrats didn't do better in MI than the bordering states, despite Gretch's big pro-labor program.
 
Paine said:
I’ve routinely acknowledged that her race and gender were a factor.
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It's not about HER race and gender only or primarily. It's about an American electorate that is more motivated by hate than anything.

And guess what? In addition to hating brown and black people, they hate us too. You and me both, brother. They were running against us. That can be interpreted in multiple ways and each interpretation suggests different paths forward, but first we have to be clear on what happened. MAGA hates successful America. That's why Trump lost no points by running on "America is a trash can." Everything happening in America right now at the sub-college level is negative partisanship and hate-based. They even say it. We hate the right people.
 
superrific said:
We can't fix racial attitudes, but maybe we can offer an alternative. I'm skeptical of that, because I've seen very little evidence of that over the last two decades, but maybe.
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2008 and 2012 were within the last two decades.
 
Though it is probably of little consolation, I do think it’s a silver lining that it’s appearing that Trump really didn’t get anymore votes this time than he did last time. The election wasn’t decided by some unforeseen wave of *new* Trump support. It was decided by one party not being able to turn out the base it needed to win, and the other party being able to do so. Hindsight is obviously 20/20 but I now realize that shouldn't have been so optimistic, since the polls really were quite literally as tight as they could possibly be, which meant that Trump had as good of a chance as Harris, and possibly slightly more so. I think many were not prepared emotionally for what we knew intellectually that we should have been prepared for. Personally, I have not had a negative emotional response to the outcome because I’m just past a point in which I’m going to let something outside of my control negatively impact my emotional or mental wellbeing. I do think that ultimately the deciding factor was inflation and increased prices- and with the benefit of hindsight, I think we probably lost this presidential election in 2022 as much as we did in 2024- with perhaps a touch of racism and misogyny on the part of *some* voters (but not nearly a majority of them). I think it would be foolish to dismiss racism and misogyny as *a* potential contributing factor, but I think it would be equally shortsighted to believe that racism and misogyny were even close to being *the* contributing factors.

Many people who ended up voting for Trump are not MAGA; Trump would have gotten crushed if it were only MAGA voting for him. And only ~30% of eligible voters voted for him anyway. It’s like Simon Rosenberg said: despite the initial shock, the election was a very close one, with Trump narrowly winning in the battlegrounds. The Senate will be 52-48 or 53-47 and the House to be decided by a seat or two. While Democrats lost the Presidency, they had many important down ballot wins- including in the Senate and the NC governorship- in these same battleground states. This was not a massive win, a wave election or some big mandate for MAGA. It was a narrow win in a closely divided country.

Dems need to do a lot of introspection, figure out what went wrong where and how to change it, and get ready for 2026 midterms. The Senate map in 2026 is significantly more favorable for Democrats than was the 2024 one, and if the House only has a 1-3 or so seat Republican majority, it too should be easier to flip. We need to let Trump and the GOP simply be Trump and the GOP, and the conditions should be very favorable for a positive midterm election cycle.
 
I've seen a lot of people online saying to finally just "let Trump be Trump" and hoping the previous guard rails will not be in place this time (with the exception of truly horrible potentialities) so that MAGA and the rest of America will finally get what they think they want.

I understand this sentiment, and I agree to an extent with finally letting Trump be Trump.

But let's be real: none of these people will ever learn their lesson. They'll just blame everything on someone or something else. No one should be deluded by thinking Trump being Trump will teach anyone anything. These people never take accountability for any of their actions or circumstances, which is why they're Trump supporters in the first place. They see in him reflections of themselves, or at least what they aspire to be - no consequences for actions and getting permission to be their worst selves.
 
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Kamala was a terrible candidate. Full stop. She always has been. A normal primary would not have resulted in her being the nominee. She didn't turn out the vote.

White people voted the same as they did in 2020. Black and Hispanic people gave Trump a little more support than in 2020. That doesn't scream that the results were driven by racism. Additionally, she lost some support with women. That could point to economic anxiety as women often pay the bills and buy the groceries.
 


Thought this was hilarious and kind of perfectly describes the conservatives on this board over the last few days :LOL:

The “conservatives crave liberal approval” has never been proven to be more true than on this very message board. They want us to be devastated, and most of us are just like, eh, *shrug*, enjoy getting what you voted for, and they can’t stand it.
 
CFordUNC said:
They want us to be devastated, and most of us are just like, eh, *shrug*, enjoy getting what you voted for, and they can’t stand it.
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I mean, that’s not them wanting approval. That’s them dying of thirst for lack of tears.
 
HeelingAg said:
I mean, that’s not them wanting approval. That’s them dying of thirst for lack of tears.
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Shit, this wouldn't make my top twenty disappointment list. Most of those was misery without company. I see a lot of sardonicism in my future.
 
HeelingAg said:
I mean, that’s not them wanting approval. That’s them dying of thirst for lack of tears.
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Every single Trump supporter on this board is here because they beg for liberals to approve of their views. If that wasn’t the case, they’d be on any number of other conservative-leaning forums, not here where they have spent years screaming and crying and whining that they’re oppressed and censored and silenced. None of them are here to “hear what the other side is saying” and the way that you can know that to be true is that they don’t ever, ever, ever participate in any policy discussions, and they don’t ever engage with an intent to learn or to be challenged or even perhaps to have their views changed by someone with more knowledge or expertise or lived experience than them.
 
Thoughts, maybe. God, if there is one, is too busy for something as small and ephemeral as us. Not going to bother with prayers.
 
CFordUNC said:
Every single Trump supporter on this board is here because they beg for liberals to approve of their views. If that wasn’t the case, they’d be on any number of other conservative-leaning forums, not here where they have spent years screaming and crying and whining that they’re oppressed and censored and silenced. None of them are here to “hear what the other side is saying” and the way that you can know that to be true is that they don’t ever, ever, ever participate in any policy discussions, and they don’t ever engage with an intent to learn or to be challenged or even perhaps to have their views changed by someone with more knowledge or expertise or lived experience than them.
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I think that's called living down to expectations.
 
CFordUNC said:
Though it is probably of little consolation, I do think it’s a silver lining that it’s appearing that Trump really didn’t get anymore votes this time than he did last time. The election wasn’t decided by some unforeseen wave of *new* Trump support. It was decided by one party not being able to turn out the base it needed to win, and the other party being able to do so. Hindsight is obviously 20/20 but I now realize that shouldn't have been so optimistic, since the polls really were quite literally as tight as they could possibly be, which meant that Trump had as good of a chance as Harris, and possibly slightly more so. I think many were not prepared emotionally for what we knew intellectually that we should have been prepared for. Personally, I have not had a negative emotional response to the outcome because I’m just past a point in which I’m going to let something outside of my control negatively impact my emotional or mental wellbeing. I do think that ultimately the deciding factor was inflation and increased prices- and with the benefit of hindsight, I think we probably lost this presidential election in 2022 as much as we did in 2024- with perhaps a touch of racism and misogyny on the part of *some* voters (but not nearly a majority of them). I think it would be foolish to dismiss racism and misogyny as *a* potential contributing factor, but I think it would be equally shortsighted to believe that racism and misogyny were even close to being *the* contributing factors.

Many people who ended up voting for Trump are not MAGA; Trump would have gotten crushed if it were only MAGA voting for him. And only ~30% of eligible voters voted for him anyway. It’s like Simon Rosenberg said: despite the initial shock, the election was a very close one, with Trump narrowly winning in the battlegrounds. The Senate will be 52-48 or 53-47 and the House to be decided by a seat or two. While Democrats lost the Presidency, they had many important down ballot wins- including in the Senate and the NC governorship- in these same battleground states. This was not a massive win, a wave election or some big mandate for MAGA. It was a narrow win in a closely divided country.

Dems need to do a lot of introspection, figure out what went wrong where and how to change it, and get ready for 2026 midterms. The Senate map in 2026 is significantly more favorable for Democrats than was the 2024 one, and if the House only has a 1-3 or so seat Republican majority, it too should be easier to flip. We need to let Trump and the GOP simply be Trump and the GOP, and the conditions should be very favorable for a positive midterm election cycle.
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I mean, I was saying weeks ago that I was pretty certain he was going to win and that that was what the polling data was showing. As were several other folks on here. I was prepared for it, and it is still fucking with my head. We joke about crowd sizes, but the best evidence that he was going to win was that he turned his rallies into even more of a dog and pony show and started closing the gap. The man just stopped and awkwardly bobbed his head to music for an hour because he knew he was going to win. He was telling us and his base something, and he was right.
 
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