UNC ONLY BASKETBALL 2024-25 SEASON

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CFordUNC said:
I would think Dusty would be interested in going home to Bloomington if he were going to leave Michigan, right?
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I dont see Indiana as being a terribly desirable top tier job. It has been 40 years since they won a national title and 23 years since their last Elite 8 appearance.
 
wmheel1287 said:
I dont see Indiana as being a terribly desirable top tier job. It has been 40 years since they won a national title and 23 years since their last Elite 8 appearance.
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Yeah, I’m with you, I would think Michigan is a better job overall these days than Indiana.
 
Can see both sides here. In my opinion the 4 traditional blue blood programs are still the top 4 jobs in the country. I’m sure there are plenty of really good coaches out there that any of those programs would at least kick the tires on in the event that their job opens up, that would say “thanks but no thanks” because they are content in their current situation and simply don’t have any interest in taking on a job with such high levels of pressure and expectations even if they had an unlimited budget.

Also—and it pains me to say this—I think there’s an argument that UNC is the least desirable of the blue blood jobs right now. The other 3 either have the right conference affiliation (UK) or they’ve proven to have the necessary financial infrastructure in place to compete at the highest level in the NIL era even though they aren’t in a P2 league (Duke and KU). Even 5 years ago I would have said UNC has the strongest argument for the best job in the country. Better location to live and raise a family compared to UK and KU, passionate fan base but not over the top to the point that they’ll legitimately make your life miserable like UK, and we don’t have the overtly negative/villainous aura around the brand that makes the rest of the country constantly root against us like Duke.

Now it’s certainly possible that our PTB finally throws down the gauntlet this off-season and pours in money that matches what the other top programs are doing. Up to this point though we haven't actually shown that level of commitment and can’t just assume that it will 100% happen. Until it does, we kinda have an unfortunate misalignment where the expectations for the program outpace what’s realistic (to be clear, I do not believe that this is a legitimate excuse for Hubert missing the tournament 2 out of 3 seasons, which is massively underachieving even taking into account that we are not spending the same as the other blue bloods).

That was long winded, but back to the original point: if UNC hypothetically fired Hubert after this season, I do not think that any realistic candidates that may have otherwise been on the fence about seriously considering our job would then have a change of heart because they feel like they wouldn’t get a long enough leash or that the expectations are unreasonable. Candidly, I bet a lot of coaches see the program struggling like this and believe that they could do a much better job even if the financial situation stays the same as what it is now. Gotta remember that these are all extremely competitive people that think highly of themselves and their ability.
 
Peppers49 said:
Can see both sides here. In my opinion the 4 traditional blue blood programs are still the top 4 jobs in the country. I’m sure there are plenty of really good coaches out there that any of those programs would at least kick the tires on in the event that their job opens up, that would say “thanks but no thanks” because they are content in their current situation and simply don’t have any interest in taking on a job with such high levels of pressure and expectations even if they had an unlimited budget.

Also—and it pains me to say this—I think there’s an argument that UNC is the least desirable of the blue blood jobs right now. The other 3 either have the right conference affiliation (UK) or they’ve proven to have the necessary financial infrastructure in place to compete at the highest level in the NIL era even though they aren’t in a P2 league (Duke and KU). Even 5 years ago I would have said UNC has the strongest argument for the best job in the country. Better location to live and raise a family compared to UK and KU, passionate fan base but not over the top to the point that they’ll legitimately make your life miserable like UK, and we don’t have the overtly negative/villainous aura around the brand that makes the rest of the country constantly root against us like Duke.

Now it’s certainly possible that our PTB finally throws down the gauntlet this off-season and pours in money that matches what the other top programs are doing. Up to this point though we haven't actually shown that level of commitment and can’t just assume that it will 100% happen. Until it does, we kinda have an unfortunate misalignment where the expectations for the program outpace what’s realistic (to be clear, I do not believe that this is a legitimate excuse for Hubert missing the tournament 2 out of 3 seasons, which is massively underachieving even taking into account that we are not spending the same as the other blue bloods).

That was long winded, but back to the original point: if UNC hypothetically fired Hubert after this season, I do not think that any realistic candidates that may have otherwise been on the fence about seriously considering our job would then have a change of heart because they feel like they wouldn’t get a long enough leash or that the expectations are unreasonable. Candidly, I bet a lot of coaches see the program struggling like this and believe that they could do a much better job even if the financial situation stays the same as what it is now. Gotta remember that these are all extremely competitive people that think highly of themselves and their ability.
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The coaching fraternity is somewhat tight and self-preserving.
Hubert getting fired after this season will be cast in a negative light by the media and will be criticized by those in the industry.
That doesn’t mean it won’t work out but it’s not going to play to well.
 
Bigs23 said:
The coaching fraternity is somewhat tight and self-preserving.
Hubert getting fired after this season will be cast in a negative light by the media and will be criticized by those in the industry.
That doesn’t mean it won’t work out but it’s not going to play to well.
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I get it, Hubert used to work in the media and has a lot of friends with a platform in his corner. If he were to get fired I’m sure at least a few of them would pound the table and say he got a raw deal. That happens to some degree with most of these moves.

The bottom line is that if you feel like a coach is in over his head and it’s not going to work out long term, worrying about a few days of former coaches or players being mad about it on ESPN shouldn’t be a reason to not make a move.
 
Bigs23 said:
UNC hired Matt Doherty once.

It’s also a different world now. Big money can be made everywhere. Coaches with options may want a more stable, controllable environment.
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UNC hired Matt Doherty for the same reason it hired Hubert Davis, they made "staying within the family" bigger than actual proven coaching ability. And it went about as well the second time as it did the first.

Carolina Basketball brings advantages that few other places bring...the history & the tradition, the banners, the reputation, and the commitment to winning (for the most part). Even with a mere decent coach over the last few years, we've still recruited better than most other schools.

I stand by my statement without any other qualifications...as long as we get our money right, we will have very, very qualified candidates who will be more than willing to take this job.
 
Bigs23 said:
The coaching fraternity is somewhat tight and self-preserving.
Hubert getting fired after this season will be cast in a negative light by the media and will be criticized by those in the industry.
That doesn’t mean it won’t work out but it’s not going to play to well.
Click to expand...
The national media has already come out pretty strongly with the "What's wrong at Carolina?" stories. If we miss the NCAAT again and we move on from Hubert, I don't think you'll see a huge backlash as most of the national media will fully understand why our results over the last 4 years fall short of the standard at a school like Carolina. I wouldn't be surprised to see a small amount of clickbait articles that might take a negative view, but I would expect those to be a distinct minority of stories.

If it happens, and assuming we go outside the family for a new coach, I think you'll see it much more often used as a jumping off point for a lot of "Look how much college basketball has changed!" stories. The easy story is that college basketball has changed so much that even staid ol' "keep it in the family" Carolina has had to make major changes. And while that's not an incorrect take, it'll miss that the biggest issue we face isn't "the changing world of college basketball", it's that we made a very shortsighted hire 4 years ago and we've paid a significant price for it since.

In terms of the coaching fraternity, I don't think you'll see the backlash you're expecting either. And that's not because they don't like Hubert (I assume they do), but a lot of them are going to see it as he didn't pay his dues before getting the head job at Carolina and that's a lot of what led to him being in over his head in the role. Many of them very much remember what it's like to start as an assistant at a smaller program and then work their way up the ladder as an assistant at progressively bigger schools before returning to a smaller school as a head coach to try to climb the ladder back up as a head coach. Alternately, Hubert was recruited by Roy to start his coaching career as an assistant at Carolina and then chosen directly by Roy to be the HC without a real search. I would imagine that a number of coaches aren't going to have a great deal of sympathy for Hubert given that path to the job, especially since most of them won't really sniff jobs as prestigious as "Head Basketball Coach at the University of North Carolina". There were discussions about how Roy, even near the end of his career with all his success, was at times viewed by other coaches as a "golden boy" who hadn't paid his dues and had only done it at blue blood programs. And if other coaches are going to feel that way about someone as successful as Roy, they're not going to have any more sympathy for Hubert who has had so much less success at a blue blood program.
 
The truth is that in today’s climate, with things as haywire as they’ve been relative to the original UNC model since even before the pandemic but certainly exacerbated by it, not a single one of you can say with any certainty that things will be better with or without HD as head coach.

He could be and should be doing better than he is this season. But how much better, given what transfers in and out and the total roster crapshoot have done to the program? Some coaches have been lucky and some ain’t. He hasn’t been able to drum up the locker room and on-court leadership that’s necessary to shepherd this team into its potential, and needs to account for that. But are we saying that someone like Jon Scheyer would be doing any better with this roster?

IMO once the larger strategy questions about the program are answered, HD is going to fit just as comfortably as any top name you can name. What’s happening is a lot of things combining into a perfect storm. But the post-Bacot roster construction is THE primary issue. Get the fixed and half of you will finally STFU. No small task but it’s within reach.
 
Much better here than history thread.

1963 Michael Jordan (born February 17, 1963, Brooklyn, New York, U.S.) is a former collegiate and professional basketball player widely considered to be one of the greatest all-around players in the history of the game. Jordan’s unmatched athleticism and competitive drive revolutionized the sport while winning six NBA championships with the Chicago Bulls (1991–93, 1996–98).

 
SnoopRob said:
The national media has already come out pretty strongly with the "What's wrong at Carolina?" stories. If we miss the NCAAT again and we move on from Hubert, I don't think you'll see a huge backlash as most of the national media will fully understand why our results over the last 4 years fall short of the standard at a school like Carolina. I wouldn't be surprised to see a small amount of clickbait articles that might take a negative view, but I would expect those to be a distinct minority of stories.

If it happens, and assuming we go outside the family for a new coach, I think you'll see it much more often used as a jumping off point for a lot of "Look how much college basketball has changed!" stories. The easy story is that college basketball has changed so much that even staid ol' "keep it in the family" Carolina has had to make major changes. And while that's not an incorrect take, it'll miss that the biggest issue we face isn't "the changing world of college basketball", it's that we made a very shortsighted hire 4 years ago and we've paid a significant price for it since.

In terms of the coaching fraternity, I don't think you'll see the backlash you're expecting either. And that's not because they don't like Hubert (I assume they do), but a lot of them are going to see it as he didn't pay his dues before getting the head job at Carolina and that's a lot of what led to him being in over his head in the role. Many of them very much remember what it's like to start as an assistant at a smaller program and then work their way up the ladder as an assistant at progressively bigger schools before returning to a smaller school as a head coach to try to climb the ladder back up as a head coach. Alternately, Hubert was recruited by Roy to start his coaching career as an assistant at Carolina and then chosen directly by Roy to be the HC without a real search. I would imagine that a number of coaches aren't going to have a great deal of sympathy for Hubert given that path to the job, especially since most of them won't really sniff jobs as prestigious as "Head Basketball Coach at the University of North Carolina". There were discussions about how Roy, even near the end of his career with all his success, was at times viewed by other coaches as a "golden boy" who hadn't paid his dues and had only done it at blue blood programs. And if other coaches are going to feel that way about someone as successful as Roy, they're not going to have any more sympathy for Hubert who has had so much less success at a blue blood program.
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How many year was Coach Davis an assistant at UNC?
 
I gotta say that the idea that Roy Williams didn't pay his dues is utterly ridiculous. I know snoop is only saying what he heard others saying, but those people should be ignored. The man sold calendars door to door to make ends meet just so he could learn under Dean Smith. He took over a KU program with major sanctions against them, so it wasn't like the program was in a great spot when he took over. A big reason KU has remained a blue blood is Roy Williams, if they made a wrong hire back then it may be a different story.
 
SnoopRob said:
The national media has already come out pretty strongly with the "What's wrong at Carolina?" stories. If we miss the NCAAT again and we move on from Hubert, I don't think you'll see a huge backlash as most of the national media will fully understand why our results over the last 4 years fall short of the standard at a school like Carolina. I wouldn't be surprised to see a small amount of clickbait articles that might take a negative view, but I would expect those to be a distinct minority of stories.

If it happens, and assuming we go outside the family for a new coach, I think you'll see it much more often used as a jumping off point for a lot of "Look how much college basketball has changed!" stories. The easy story is that college basketball has changed so much that even staid ol' "keep it in the family" Carolina has had to make major changes. And while that's not an incorrect take, it'll miss that the biggest issue we face isn't "the changing world of college basketball", it's that we made a very shortsighted hire 4 years ago and we've paid a significant price for it since.

In terms of the coaching fraternity, I don't think you'll see the backlash you're expecting either. And that's not because they don't like Hubert (I assume they do), but a lot of them are going to see it as he didn't pay his dues before getting the head job at Carolina and that's a lot of what led to him being in over his head in the role. Many of them very much remember what it's like to start as an assistant at a smaller program and then work their way up the ladder as an assistant at progressively bigger schools before returning to a smaller school as a head coach to try to climb the ladder back up as a head coach. Alternately, Hubert was recruited by Roy to start his coaching career as an assistant at Carolina and then chosen directly by Roy to be the HC without a real search. I would imagine that a number of coaches aren't going to have a great deal of sympathy for Hubert given that path to the job, especially since most of them won't really sniff jobs as prestigious as "Head Basketball Coach at the University of North Carolina". There were discussions about how Roy, even near the end of his career with all his success, was at times viewed by other coaches as a "golden boy" who hadn't paid his dues and had only done it at blue blood programs. And if other coaches are going to feel that way about someone as successful as Roy, they're not going to have any more sympathy for Hubert who has had so much less success at a blue blood program.
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I think there’s a subset of our fan base that only pays attention to UNC basketball and doesn’t really have a pulse on the current national discourse and coverage of the sport. When UNC is discussed in that context lately, they aren’t talking about our excellent defensive switching on the final possession of regulation to force OT against BC. They’re asking what is wrong with the program in the big picture and whether or not Hubert Davis is capable of running the program successfully long term. If he were to get fired it would absolutely not be viewed in the media as some unexpected knee jerk reaction by UNC.
 
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