UNC ONLY BASKETBALL 2024-25 SEASON

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UNC hired Matt Doherty once.

It’s also a different world now. Big money can be made everywhere. Coaches with options may want a more stable, controllable environment.
UNC hired Matt Doherty for the same reason it hired Hubert Davis, they made "staying within the family" bigger than actual proven coaching ability. And it went about as well the second time as it did the first.

Carolina Basketball brings advantages that few other places bring...the history & the tradition, the banners, the reputation, and the commitment to winning (for the most part). Even with a mere decent coach over the last few years, we've still recruited better than most other schools.

I stand by my statement without any other qualifications...as long as we get our money right, we will have very, very qualified candidates who will be more than willing to take this job.
 
The coaching fraternity is somewhat tight and self-preserving.
Hubert getting fired after this season will be cast in a negative light by the media and will be criticized by those in the industry.
That doesn’t mean it won’t work out but it’s not going to play to well.
The national media has already come out pretty strongly with the "What's wrong at Carolina?" stories. If we miss the NCAAT again and we move on from Hubert, I don't think you'll see a huge backlash as most of the national media will fully understand why our results over the last 4 years fall short of the standard at a school like Carolina. I wouldn't be surprised to see a small amount of clickbait articles that might take a negative view, but I would expect those to be a distinct minority of stories.

If it happens, and assuming we go outside the family for a new coach, I think you'll see it much more often used as a jumping off point for a lot of "Look how much college basketball has changed!" stories. The easy story is that college basketball has changed so much that even staid ol' "keep it in the family" Carolina has had to make major changes. And while that's not an incorrect take, it'll miss that the biggest issue we face isn't "the changing world of college basketball", it's that we made a very shortsighted hire 4 years ago and we've paid a significant price for it since.

In terms of the coaching fraternity, I don't think you'll see the backlash you're expecting either. And that's not because they don't like Hubert (I assume they do), but a lot of them are going to see it as he didn't pay his dues before getting the head job at Carolina and that's a lot of what led to him being in over his head in the role. Many of them very much remember what it's like to start as an assistant at a smaller program and then work their way up the ladder as an assistant at progressively bigger schools before returning to a smaller school as a head coach to try to climb the ladder back up as a head coach. Alternately, Hubert was recruited by Roy to start his coaching career as an assistant at Carolina and then chosen directly by Roy to be the HC without a real search. I would imagine that a number of coaches aren't going to have a great deal of sympathy for Hubert given that path to the job, especially since most of them won't really sniff jobs as prestigious as "Head Basketball Coach at the University of North Carolina". There were discussions about how Roy, even near the end of his career with all his success, was at times viewed by other coaches as a "golden boy" who hadn't paid his dues and had only done it at blue blood programs. And if other coaches are going to feel that way about someone as successful as Roy, they're not going to have any more sympathy for Hubert who has had so much less success at a blue blood program.
 
The truth is that in today’s climate, with things as haywire as they’ve been relative to the original UNC model since even before the pandemic but certainly exacerbated by it, not a single one of you can say with any certainty that things will be better with or without HD as head coach.

He could be and should be doing better than he is this season. But how much better, given what transfers in and out and the total roster crapshoot have done to the program? Some coaches have been lucky and some ain’t. He hasn’t been able to drum up the locker room and on-court leadership that’s necessary to shepherd this team into its potential, and needs to account for that. But are we saying that someone like Jon Scheyer would be doing any better with this roster?

IMO once the larger strategy questions about the program are answered, HD is going to fit just as comfortably as any top name you can name. What’s happening is a lot of things combining into a perfect storm. But the post-Bacot roster construction is THE primary issue. Get the fixed and half of you will finally STFU. No small task but it’s within reach.
 
Much better here than history thread.

1963 Michael Jordan (born February 17, 1963, Brooklyn, New York, U.S.) is a former collegiate and professional basketball player widely considered to be one of the greatest all-around players in the history of the game. Jordan’s unmatched athleticism and competitive drive revolutionized the sport while winning six NBA championships with the Chicago Bulls (1991–93, 1996–98).

 
The national media has already come out pretty strongly with the "What's wrong at Carolina?" stories. If we miss the NCAAT again and we move on from Hubert, I don't think you'll see a huge backlash as most of the national media will fully understand why our results over the last 4 years fall short of the standard at a school like Carolina. I wouldn't be surprised to see a small amount of clickbait articles that might take a negative view, but I would expect those to be a distinct minority of stories.

If it happens, and assuming we go outside the family for a new coach, I think you'll see it much more often used as a jumping off point for a lot of "Look how much college basketball has changed!" stories. The easy story is that college basketball has changed so much that even staid ol' "keep it in the family" Carolina has had to make major changes. And while that's not an incorrect take, it'll miss that the biggest issue we face isn't "the changing world of college basketball", it's that we made a very shortsighted hire 4 years ago and we've paid a significant price for it since.

In terms of the coaching fraternity, I don't think you'll see the backlash you're expecting either. And that's not because they don't like Hubert (I assume they do), but a lot of them are going to see it as he didn't pay his dues before getting the head job at Carolina and that's a lot of what led to him being in over his head in the role. Many of them very much remember what it's like to start as an assistant at a smaller program and then work their way up the ladder as an assistant at progressively bigger schools before returning to a smaller school as a head coach to try to climb the ladder back up as a head coach. Alternately, Hubert was recruited by Roy to start his coaching career as an assistant at Carolina and then chosen directly by Roy to be the HC without a real search. I would imagine that a number of coaches aren't going to have a great deal of sympathy for Hubert given that path to the job, especially since most of them won't really sniff jobs as prestigious as "Head Basketball Coach at the University of North Carolina". There were discussions about how Roy, even near the end of his career with all his success, was at times viewed by other coaches as a "golden boy" who hadn't paid his dues and had only done it at blue blood programs. And if other coaches are going to feel that way about someone as successful as Roy, they're not going to have any more sympathy for Hubert who has had so much less success at a blue blood program.
How many year was Coach Davis an assistant at UNC?
 
I gotta say that the idea that Roy Williams didn't pay his dues is utterly ridiculous. I know snoop is only saying what he heard others saying, but those people should be ignored. The man sold calendars door to door to make ends meet just so he could learn under Dean Smith. He took over a KU program with major sanctions against them, so it wasn't like the program was in a great spot when he took over. A big reason KU has remained a blue blood is Roy Williams, if they made a wrong hire back then it may be a different story.
 
The national media has already come out pretty strongly with the "What's wrong at Carolina?" stories. If we miss the NCAAT again and we move on from Hubert, I don't think you'll see a huge backlash as most of the national media will fully understand why our results over the last 4 years fall short of the standard at a school like Carolina. I wouldn't be surprised to see a small amount of clickbait articles that might take a negative view, but I would expect those to be a distinct minority of stories.

If it happens, and assuming we go outside the family for a new coach, I think you'll see it much more often used as a jumping off point for a lot of "Look how much college basketball has changed!" stories. The easy story is that college basketball has changed so much that even staid ol' "keep it in the family" Carolina has had to make major changes. And while that's not an incorrect take, it'll miss that the biggest issue we face isn't "the changing world of college basketball", it's that we made a very shortsighted hire 4 years ago and we've paid a significant price for it since.

In terms of the coaching fraternity, I don't think you'll see the backlash you're expecting either. And that's not because they don't like Hubert (I assume they do), but a lot of them are going to see it as he didn't pay his dues before getting the head job at Carolina and that's a lot of what led to him being in over his head in the role. Many of them very much remember what it's like to start as an assistant at a smaller program and then work their way up the ladder as an assistant at progressively bigger schools before returning to a smaller school as a head coach to try to climb the ladder back up as a head coach. Alternately, Hubert was recruited by Roy to start his coaching career as an assistant at Carolina and then chosen directly by Roy to be the HC without a real search. I would imagine that a number of coaches aren't going to have a great deal of sympathy for Hubert given that path to the job, especially since most of them won't really sniff jobs as prestigious as "Head Basketball Coach at the University of North Carolina". There were discussions about how Roy, even near the end of his career with all his success, was at times viewed by other coaches as a "golden boy" who hadn't paid his dues and had only done it at blue blood programs. And if other coaches are going to feel that way about someone as successful as Roy, they're not going to have any more sympathy for Hubert who has had so much less success at a blue blood program.
I think there’s a subset of our fan base that only pays attention to UNC basketball and doesn’t really have a pulse on the current national discourse and coverage of the sport. When UNC is discussed in that context lately, they aren’t talking about our excellent defensive switching on the final possession of regulation to force OT against BC. They’re asking what is wrong with the program in the big picture and whether or not Hubert Davis is capable of running the program successfully long term. If he were to get fired it would absolutely not be viewed in the media as some unexpected knee jerk reaction by UNC.
 
I can tell you based on some interactions and conversations with people that would be considered "close to the program" including those in media that they are all well aware that their connection to the program would be severed the instant they levy any real criticism. HD is portrayed by those folks I talk to as being exceptionally stubborn and unwilling to accept ownership of any of the shortcomings of the current team or the program overall. Take that for what it is worth.
big yikes.
 
I think there’s a subset of our fan base that only pays attention to UNC basketball and doesn’t really have a pulse on the current national discourse and coverage of the sport. When UNC is discussed in that context lately, they aren’t talking about our excellent defensive switching on the final possession of regulation to force OT against BC. They’re asking what is wrong with the program in the big picture and whether or not Hubert Davis is capable of running the program successfully long term. If he were to get fired it would absolutely not be viewed in the media as some unexpected knee jerk reaction by UNC.
I don’t see much coverage on the state of UNC basketball by the national sports media and haven’t seen any saying Hubert should be fired. It’s not a big story. Now if you’re talking about social media type stuff I don’t pay attention to that.
 
I don’t see much coverage on the state of UNC basketball by the national sports media and haven’t seen any saying Hubert should be fired. It’s not a big story. Now if you’re talking about social media type stuff I don’t pay attention to that.
I posted an article by Wolken stating exactly that. The Field of 68 has, on several occasions, discussed this in great detail.

Simply google Hubert Davis. You’ll have as much content as you want to read.
 
You just don’t like when the facts don’t support your theory.

That amount of time as an assistant is plenty of dues paying.
not sure if that amount of time as just an assistant is actually enough dues paid to get the head gig at UNC in this day and age.

esp now that it really appears to not be working out. time to pull the plug.
 
I posted an article by Wolken stating exactly that. The Field of 68 has, on several occasions, discussed this in great detail.

Simply google Hubert Davis. You’ll have as much content as you want to read.
Brendan Marks who covers unc and dook for The Athletic has been talking about it for some time.

HD's status at UNC is absolutely a story that is percolating around amongst UNCBB media and CBB media at large.
 
not sure if that amount of time as just an assistant is actually enough dues paid to get the head gig at UNC in this day and age.

esp now that it really appears to not be working out. time to pull the plug.
An assistant for a decade at the program under the tutelage under the guy you are taking over for is plenty.

Predicting success is not an exact science.

I’m not saying that Hubert is the guy but there’s no guarantee that the next coach will be either.

If you’re going to fire a lifer you better have one helluva a plan to replace him.
 
I gotta say that the idea that Roy Williams didn't pay his dues is utterly ridiculous. I know snoop is only saying what he heard others saying, but those people should be ignored. The man sold calendars door to door to make ends meet just so he could learn under Dean Smith. He took over a KU program with major sanctions against them, so it wasn't like the program was in a great spot when he took over. A big reason KU has remained a blue blood is Roy Williams, if they made a wrong hire back then it may be a different story.
Yeah Roy might not have spent a decade+ working his way through the assistant and then head coaching ranks at smaller college programs before he got his big break like a lot of coaches do, but he has still always been a career coach and went straight into the profession after his time at UNC. Not really fair to say he didn’t “pay his dues”.

Frankly I don’t like framing the discussion about Hubert in terms of “paying dues” anyways. Feels a bit harsh and no coach’s career trajectory is going to be the same as another’s. Even still, the fact is that almost every college coach went straight into the coaching profession in some form or another very quickly following their college graduation. Hubert going 20 years from the time he left UNC as a student before he actually entered the coaching world undeniably makes him a major outlier among other big time coaches.
 
An assistant for a decade at the program under the tutelage under the guy you are taking over for is plenty.

Predicting success is not an exact science.

I’m not saying that Hubert is the guy but there’s no guarantee that the next coach will be either.

If you’re going to fire a lifer you better have one helluva a plan to replace him.
Did you agree with Bubba firing Mack?
 
Yeah Roy might not have spent a decade+ working his way through the assistant and then head coaching ranks at smaller college programs before he got his big break like a lot of coaches do, but he has still always been a career coach and went straight into the profession after his time at UNC. Not really fair to say he didn’t “pay his dues”.

Frankly I don’t like framing the discussion about Hubert in terms of “paying dues” anyways. Feels a bit harsh and no coach’s career trajectory is going to be the same as another’s. Even still, the fact is that almost every college coach went straight into the coaching profession in some form or another very quickly following their college graduation. Hubert going 20 years from the time he left UNC as a student before he actually entered the coaching world undeniably makes him a major outlier among other big time coaches.
So I guess those years playing professionally at the highest level, with and against the best in the world, and learning from Hall of Fame coaches doesn't count. :rolleyes:
 
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