UNC ONLY BASKETBALL 2024-25 SEASON

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Bigs23 said:
if you fire Hubert you fire Jeff Lebo , Sean May, Pat Sullivan, and Marcus Paige. That’s 5 family members. Plus you piss off Roy.

It also marks the end of the “Carolina Way”.

So even if it is something that has to be done it’s not as simple as bringing in a new guy.

It’s going to be sad ending to a unique and marvelous era.
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I think we all realize the magnitude of firing a coach. Not sure why it marks the end of the "Carolina Way." You could always bring in another from "the family." (Having said that, I hope that they actually do a legit search this time. If a Carolina person is the best choice/hire then so be it.) Finally, it's far more sad to see UNC drop in prestige due to lack-luster results, than it would be to bring in someone outside of "the family," and bring them into "the family."
 
stankeylegjones said:
I think we all realize the magnitude of firing a coach. Not sure why it marks the end of the "Carolina Way." You could always bring in another from "the family." (Having said that, I hope that they actually do a legit search this time. If a Carolina person is the best choice/hire then so be it.) Finally, it's far more sad to see UNC drop in prestige due to lack-luster results, than it would be to bring in someone outside of "the family," and bring them into "the family."
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It’s naive to believe that replacing Hubert automatically means UNC will have significantly more success moving forward. Particularly without other significant changes to the operation as a whole.

Winning in this new era of CBB doing things as close to the Carolina Way as possible was really the only chance of preserving it. That may have just been a pipe dream but it was something.

When UNC goes the way of the Auburns and Alabamas the joy of success is diluted and diminished in my eyes. Which is why I’m inclined to give Hubert more time with the appropriate adjustments to the overall infrastructure of the program. It’s the last chance.
 
Bigs23 said:
You just don’t like when the facts don’t support your theory.

That amount of time as an assistant is plenty of dues paying.
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The facts fit my theory perfectly as the location of his work is operative here.

He was an assistant at Carolina, where the team pretty much gets the best of everything. He never had to struggle at a school where you the budget won’t let you fly to all games over a small distance away and you end up with long bus rides. He’s never been at a school where you not only fly commercial, but you fly exclusively economy. He’s never been at a school where the coaching staff is regularly going janitorial or maintenance work to save money. And he’s certainly never had to scramble, network, and beg to get his position.

From the perspective of a lot of coaches, 9 years as a hand-picked assistant at Carolina before taking over as the hand-picked head coach isn’t “paying your dues”.
 
Bigs23 said:
Mack is what 75 years old? He’s also not a lifer. Not the same.
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Mack was the head of UNC football for 16 years, over two stints. That's a long time. But, I can see how one would argue he's not a "lifer." Is it just age and not being a "lifer" that made it fine for you to fire him with no plan in place?
 
Bigs23 said:
It’s naive to believe that replacing Hubert automatically means UNC will have significantly more success moving forward. Particularly without other significant changes to the operation as a whole.

Winning in this new era of CBB doing things as close to the Carolina Way as possible was really the only chance of preserving it. That may have just been a pipe dream but it was something.

When UNC goes the way of the Auburns and Alabamas the joy of success is diluted and diminished in my eyes. Which is why I’m inclined to give Hubert more time with the appropriate adjustments to the overall infrastructure of the program. It’s the last chance.
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Where did I ever say that replacing HD means UNC will have significantly more success? Why must you insert claims never stated?

The future success of UNC's next coach is not clear, but their future lack of UNC-type success under HD is pretty certain. At least it is to me. You seem to disagree with that. Yet, you have never shared with us what you are seeing from HD/staff this year that gives you reason to praise them. So, I'll ask again, what have you seen from the staff this year that are worthy of praise?
 
Bigs23 said:
An assistant for a decade at the program under the tutelage under the guy you are taking over for is plenty.

Predicting success is not an exact science.

I’m not saying that Hubert is the guy but there’s no guarantee that the next coach will be either.

If you’re going to fire a lifer you better have one helluva a plan to replace him.
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most of the coaches who land a top 5 job in the sport have more experience than one stint as an assistant.

most of the coaches who get a high major job period have more experience than one stint as an assistant.
 
Enigma94 said:
I gotta say that the idea that Roy Williams didn't pay his dues is utterly ridiculous. I know snoop is only saying what he heard others saying, but those people should be ignored. The man sold calendars door to door to make ends meet just so he could learn under Dean Smith. He took over a KU program with major sanctions against them, so it wasn't like the program was in a great spot when he took over. A big reason KU has remained a blue blood is Roy Williams, if they made a wrong hire back then it may be a different story.
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I think once you dig into Roy’s story, he did pay his dues. He volunteered as a student while at Carolina to take stats and worked Coach Smith’s camps just to be around the program. He was a high school coach in a number of sports (and the AD) for a number of years before coming back to Carolina. And then, as you noted, when he came back to Carolina, he had to sell calendars and deliver tapes just to make it financially as an assistant coach.

But if folks in coaching think all of that is enough to question if you've paid your dues just because you were only at blue bloods at the collegiate level, then how much more would they think of that regarding Hubert, who went from NBA player to TV analyst to Carolina assistant coach to Carolina HC?
 
SnoopRob said:
I think once you dig into Roy’s story, he did pay his dues. He volunteered as a student while at Carolina to take stats and worked Coach Smith’s camps just to be around the program. He was a high school coach in a number of sports (and the AD) for a number of years before coming back to Carolina. And then, as you noted, when he came back to Carolina, he had to sell calendars and deliver tapes just to make it financially as an assistant coach.

But if folks in coaching think all of that is enough to question if you've paid your dues just because you were only at blue bloods at the collegiate level, then how much more would they think of that regarding Hubert, who went from NBA player to TV analyst to Carolina assistant coach to Carolina HC?
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You seem to have conveniently left out that he got a throwaway scholarship and was told that he might not ever play by a Hall of Fame coach. If there's a silver spoon in his mouth, he dug the silver and forged the spoon.
 
SnoopRob said:
I think once you dig into Roy’s story, he did pay his dues. He volunteered as a student while at Carolina to take stats and worked Coach Smith’s camps just to be around the program. He was a high school coach in a number of sports (and the AD) for a number of years before coming back to Carolina. And then, as you noted, when he came back to Carolina, he had to sell calendars and deliver tapes just to make it financially as an assistant coach.

But if folks in coaching think all of that is enough to question if you've paid your dues just because you were only at blue bloods at the collegiate level, then how much more would they think of that regarding Hubert, who went from NBA player to TV analyst to Carolina assistant coach to Carolina HC?
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Personally I think the whole paid your dues conversation is pointless. Either you have the right guy or you don't regardless of how that person learned to be a coach. I was just pointing out that anyone who says that Roy didn't pay his dues is not worth listening to. I'm still waiting for the season to play out before I make up my mind on another year for Davis, not that anyone making the decision is listening to my opinion.
 
finesse said:
You seem to have conveniently left out that he got a throwaway scholarship and was told that he might not ever play by a Hall of Fame coach. If there's a silver spoon in his mouth, he dug the silver and forged the spoon.
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That's not really relevant to Hubert's coaching career. His playing career, sure, but not his coaching career.
 
Bigs23 said:
Most don’t have 12 years in the NBA either.
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absolutely. or experience playing under all of dean smith, pat riley, don nelson, rick carlisle, larry brown, etc. etc.

i'm not trying to relitigate HD's hiring. i was all aboard.

but now that it clearly isn't working out, what do we do?
 
4thgenheel said:
absolutely. or experience playing under all of dean smith, pat riley, don nelson, rick carlisle, larry brown, etc. etc.

i'm not trying to relitigate HD's hiring. i was all aboard.

but now that it clearly isn't working out, what do we do?
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We’re less than a year removed from an ACC championship and Hubert being ACC COY.

Could it be argued that it’s not completely clear that it’s not working?
 
Bigs23 said:
We’re less than a year removed from an ACC championship and Hubert being ACC COY.

Could it be argued that it’s not completely clear that it’s not working?
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last year was good but it was the only full carolina standard season HD has had in his 4 at the helm. and it left a bit to be desired with the relative disappointments in the acct and s16 loss, but you could excuse those in light of the dook sweep and reg season title if the good stuff was the norm and not the outlier.

before last season was an epic dumpster fire of a season.

now this season we've got a team that on paper should be better than it is that is quite simply floundering.

1.5 good seasons out of 4 is just not even close to good enough at carolina.
 
After more than 17 years in coaching...I would probably come down on the side that from a sheer resume standpoint, HD had plenty of dues paid. The one missing component of his resume--and its a large one--is that he had never been a head coach of his own program. The move from assistant to head coach is one of the toughest moves in coaching; you go from whispering advice and giving input to being the decider on pretty much every decision with the program. And at a high profile job like UNC, that learning curve takes place under intense scrutiny. Always thought it was a mistake in the Doh process...and sadly think it has been a factor for HD to give this job to coaches who have little head coaching experience.
 
4thgenheel said:
last year was good but it was the only full carolina standard season HD has had in his 4 at the helm. and it left a bit to be desired with the relative disappointments in the acct and s16 loss, but you could excuse those in light of the dook sweep and reg season title if the good stuff was the norm and not the outlier.

before last season was an epic dumpster fire of a season.

now this season we've got a team that on paper should be better than it is that is quite simply floundering.

1.5 good seasons out of 4 is just not even close to good enough at carolina.
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2 out of 3 3/4.

The 2021 season was a huge success. Those who say it wasn’t are focusing way too much on the beginning and way too little on the end. You don’t judge seasons by sections you judge the entirety of them.
 
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