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United Healthcare CEO shot and killed

duluoz said:
Going to the tapes is exactly what they did. The footage of him surfacing at 57th/6th immediately before going into Starbucks came from a high-end cigar shop. Almost every business has surveillance now, and as far as I know, so does every cab and rideshare vehicle. But these systems are not interconnected and are of varying degrees of sophistication, as are the people in charge of maintaining them.

I’m not even sure what you’re trying to argue anymore. The point is that splitting hairs over some network of cameras and facial recognition and AI that simply does not exist in NYC has pretty much nothing to do with identifying this suspect, in real life. Computers are not necessary for that. If we get into a trial and what is required for conviction, then sure that would’ve been a dream scenario to have a network like that in place. But it does not exist here, which is different from saying the tech or capability does not exist.

So in order to start tracking a guy, all that’s needed is “he went that way…” and then a shit ton of combing through surveillance while incorporating other tips and clues. Which is what happened, for better or worse.
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1. I'm not trying to argue anything. I'm just talking. I thought I made that clear.

2. Maybe we're talking about different things. I'm talking about getting an ID on the guy. You're right they can't necessarily track him with the cams because, as you say, there's not a network that would permit it. But in terms of facial recognition? You only need one or two stills, like the one from Starbucks. The pattern recognition software is everywhere.

3. I don't understand how "hit the tapes" works. On what timeline? Yes, everyone has security, but does NYPD call everyone in the area and say, "check your surveillance tapes now, look for this guy?" I wouldn't think that would be terribly successful. Ain't nobody got time for that.

So does NYPD go to all these businesses and pick up the tape and look through it themselves? How many tapes are we talking about? Dozens? Hundreds?

4. I would say, "for worse" since they still don't know who he is and they've said they think he's gone. Now maybe that's misdirection but it doesn't seem a stretch to think that if he hasn't been caught, he's dead or gone.
 
superrific said:
3. I don't understand how "hit the tapes" works. On what timeline? Yes, everyone has security, but does NYPD call everyone in the area and say, "check your surveillance tapes now, look for this guy?" I wouldn't think that would be terribly successful. Ain't nobody got time for that.

So does NYPD go to all these businesses and pick up the tape and look through it themselves? How many tapes are we talking about? Dozens? Hundreds?
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This is exactly what they do. Police don’t magically tap into these surveillance networks from “command center,” they go to key businesses individually based on whatever clues or tips they already have. I have seen this firsthand with cops physically in a business, reviewing footage, multiple times.

I didn’t think this would be a surprise to anyone, but yes this is what goes on during investigations where private surveillance might be useful.
 
superrific said:
1. I'm not trying to argue anything. I'm just talking. I thought I made that clear.

2. Maybe we're talking about different things. I'm talking about getting an ID on the guy. You're right they can't necessarily track him with the cams because, as you say, there's not a network that would permit it. But in terms of facial recognition? You only need one or two stills, like the one from Starbucks. The pattern recognition software is everywhere.

3. I don't understand how "hit the tapes" works. On what timeline? Yes, everyone has security, but does NYPD call everyone in the area and say, "check your surveillance tapes now, look for this guy?" I wouldn't think that would be terribly successful. Ain't nobody got time for that.

So does NYPD go to all these businesses and pick up the tape and look through it themselves? How many tapes are we talking about? Dozens? Hundreds?

4. I would say, "for worse" since they still don't know who he is and they've said they think he's gone. Now maybe that's misdirection but it doesn't seem a stretch to think that if he hasn't been caught, he's dead or gone.
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When a guy is laying dead on the sidewalk down the street from their business they make time to go pull the tapes. No one wants to operate a business in a crime zone. Also can help when they call the cops for help with something down the road.
 
duluoz said:
This is exactly what they do. Police don’t magically tap into these surveillance networks from “command center,” they go to key businesses individually based on whatever clues or tips they already have. I have seen this firsthand with cops physically in a business, reviewing footage, multiple times.

I didn’t think this would be a surprise to anyone, but yes this is what goes on during investigations where private surveillance might be useful.
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Yes, I get that. But that's not remotely quick enough to track the guy or to put out an APB before he leaves the city.

I'm not talking about any "command center." You have facial recognition software. You take the still pulled from the Starbucks video. You input the still to the software and you get out a list of possible matches. Maybe none of them hit the right guy for a number of reasons, but it isn't a complicated process and I see no reason why it can't be done in NYC.
 
NCK9 said:
When a guy is laying dead on the sidewalk down the street from their business they make time to go pull the tapes. No one wants to operate a business in a crime zone. Also can help when they call the cops for help with something down the road.
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These businesses were not "down the street" from the shooting. And I'm not talking about resisting. I'm just skeptical that the businesses drop everything to do it; and if that's the case, then it doesn't seem as though it could be done in real time fast enough.
 
They found the backpack in Central Park

"The bag was found in a second sweep of the park Friday evening, between some boulders just south of the park’s carousel, the source said.
Police secured the area, bagged the piece of evidence and sent it — unopened — to the lab, the source said. It will not be opened until it reaches the lab."
 
Milk and Cookies said:
They found the backpack in Central Park

"The bag was found in a second sweep of the park Friday evening, between some boulders just south of the park’s carousel, the source said.
Police secured the area, bagged the piece of evidence and sent it — unopened — to the lab, the source said. It will not be opened until it reaches the lab."
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Aha! That seems like a mistake. He will prob be caught now unless he's left the country.

Has anyone ever been -- or knows anyone -- who's been on a big search before? I wonder what it's like to be the guy who finds the thing. Does he get all excited? "I found it, I found it!" Is there like a betting pool and who ever finds it wins?
 
superrific said:
These businesses were not "down the street" from the shooting. And I'm not talking about resisting. I'm just skeptical that the businesses drop everything to do it; and if that's the case, then it doesn't seem as though it could be done in real time fast enough.
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Just saying that businesses want a good relationship with NYPD. Tell them to pound sand when they are asking for help in a case like this and you might not get help next time a vagrant is going to the bathroom on you businesses doorstep or you are having problems with shoplifters, etc.
 
NCK9 said:
Just saying that businesses want a good relationship with NYPD. Tell them to pound sand when they are asking for help in a case like this and you might not get help next time a vagrant is going to the bathroom on you businesses doorstep or you are having problems with shoplifters, etc.
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Right. Don't tell them to pound sand. That's not quite the same thing as immediately jumping into the videos.
 
superrific said:
Aha! That seems like a mistake. He will prob be caught now unless he's left the country.

Has anyone ever been -- or knows anyone -- who's been on a big search before? I wonder what it's like to be the guy who finds the thing. Does he get all excited? "I found it, I found it!" Is there like a betting pool and who ever finds it wins?
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This is the strongest evidence yet that he is not a pro.
 
Backpack is full of his old clothes.
Changed behind the boulders. Slipped away. Could be in Switzerland now
 
Since we're talking about pulling video for cops and I've had to do that a handful of times (although never on a case anything like this one), here's my experience...

When the cops ask for video they typically come in person, so unless you have something pressing you're gonna work with them pretty much as soon as they show up. (They'll also ask you if you have any knowledge of the events they're investigating or the people they think/know are involved.) They generally already have a good idea of what they're looking for and they'll give a rough time frame for when they need video from. In my experience, you take them to wherever the monitor is (back when there were fixed systems, now it's all in the cloud and can be accessed from any computer) and typically watch the video together. Once you've found what they're looking for, they'll ask for a copy of the video. It usually takes about 30 minutes to an hour total, depending on how wide of a range of time you have to review to find what they need and how many cameras are involved. Getting the video to the cops is now really easy once you know the exact time span you need, the security software makes it simple to cut and save and then it's just sending an email, it just takes a handful of minutes unless they need a large amount of video.
 
I think in general the reality will turn out to be much more mundane than some imaginations here. Chances are he’s not a pro. He’s not well resourced. He didn’t plan 20 steps ahead. He didn’t leave the country. He’s not making sophisticated moves like body doubles or planting fake DNA. He’s someone with a motive, opportunity, familiarity with guns and a screw loose. He arrived by bus - he left by bus. He’s hiding out somewhere he’s familiar with.
 
Milk and Cookies said:
I think in general the reality will turn out to be much more mundane than some imaginations here. Chances are he’s not a pro. He’s not well resourced. He didn’t plan 20 steps ahead. He didn’t leave the country. He’s not making sophisticated moves like body doubles or planting fake DNA. He’s someone with a motive, opportunity, familiarity with guns and a screw loose. He arrived by bus - he left by bus. He’s hiding out somewhere he’s familiar with.
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This is the right answer. Imagining this guy is Jason Borne and all the scenarios that go with it is a fun distraction or a sign of mental illness depending on your disposition but it's going to be something boring.
 
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