Where do we go from here?

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go back to 2012. If Romney wins, do we ever get Trump?

Ding Ding Ding. Almost certainly not. But we wanted to elect the cool dude. Romney was a little odd, but had a track record of success. I voted enthusiastically for the Romney/Ryan ticket. The presidency is too much of a popularity contest. I wish it wasn't, but it has become that.
 
I just can't get over what people see in Trump. It's less about why she lost, but how could he win.

A convicted felon, serial sexual harrasser, insurrectionist/ traitor, multiple bankruptcies, multiple marriages w/ infidelity, narcissitic sociopath, said to be incompotent/ dangerous/ unfit by a majority of his previous cabinet.


There is not one redeeming quality about the man or even his presidency with the exception that there is a perception that "I" was better off during his term than Biden's. It is a reality I can't understand. There is no amount of debate about what went wrong for Democrats that will ever make sense or provide a path forward for them. As someone said on another thread, we'll have to wait until it all collaspses and have to pickup the pieces New Deal style again.
You are spot on. He leads a cult and we are a very sick nation. Until he dies or we heal ourselves, the downward spiral will continue.
 
Yeah before you paint 75 million Trump voters with that broad of a brush you might wanna consider the fact that Joe Biden got 81 million votes 4 years ago and Kamala is sitting at 67 or so now. That means many millions of those Trump voters this year weren't motivated by "racial, socioeconomic, gender-based hate and rage" just a few years ago. And this is exactly what I've been saying over and over here. If you call them all idiots, you can be damn sure none of them come back. But nobody wants to ask what the hell did we do wrong to lose 14 million voters either to apathy or to a makeup wearing phony? Some of you really need to consider the possibility that you're blinded by the same visceral vitriol that many of the people you criticize on the other side are. Common sense dictates that there is a way to get a lot of these people back but most of this board would rather throw the baby out with the bathwater than admit there's a massive disconnect going on here.
There’s no disconnect. It’s not as complex as you’re trying to make it.

It’s not necessarily rural folks are “idiots”…it’s that they have bought into the propaganda they’ve been fed for over 4 decades.

Racism/sexism/bigotry/xenophobia + high prices at the grocery store, gas pump, and in the housing market are the drivers here.

Trumpism provides a scapegoat, a focus of blame for rural white folks (in particular) and rural citizens of all races. This is Trumpism in a nutshell:

“The immigrants are taking your jobs. The immigrants are causing your rent to go up. The immigrants are taking over your rural communities and murdering and raping your beautiful white wives and daughters.

And the Dems are standing by and letting it happen. They care more about paying for transgender surgeries for prisoners and they’re changing the gender of your kids while they’re at school. And they want to kill angelic little babies via post-term abortions!”

And rural people buy into it, because they need/want to blame someone for the fact that their communities have died off and their manufacturing jobs have been shipped overseas.

Dems are at an obvious and enormous disadvantage when trying to combat that messaging and “reach out to” rural voters.

The Dem message since at least Obama has been one of hope and equality for all races, genders, sexualities. To provide policies that help all people. To understand that immigrants—including undocumented immigrants—are part of our fabric and are contributors to our economy. To provide a way forward for educational and occupational opportunities for those in rural/depressed communities.

The Dem message doesn’t provide for an easy scapegoat. It doesn’t tap into the fear and rage receptors in the human brain, which MAGA/Trumpism does exquisitely well.
 
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I heard a couple of co workers talking yesterday that they have never felt more patriotic than they do today. I ask them what made them feel more patriotic today than yesterday and one of them told me that now that Trump was president again we could get back to having morality again. I simply laughed and walked away.
 
Ding Ding Ding. Almost certainly not. But we wanted to elect the cool dude. Romney was a little odd, but had a track record of success. I voted enthusiastically for the Romney/Ryan ticket. The presidency is too much of a popularity contest. I wish it wasn't, but it has become that.
That is the question of the 21st Century - but for Obama, do we ever get Trump?
 
That is the question of the 21st Century - but for Obama, do we ever get Trump?
IOW, when did we want an economic downturn? The Republicans are so against big government ,they can't govern. Point out the last Republican president to actually be good for the economy. Eisenhower, maybe? He had a war torn world to compete against.
 
Honestly, I'm still processing. I know I'll be back in the fight fighting the good fight come hell or high water, but I personally feel like I need more than a day to process what this means and how to be most effective for what comes next.
 
Ding Ding Ding. Almost certainly not. But we wanted to elect the cool dude. Romney was a little odd, but had a track record of success. I voted enthusiastically for the Romney/Ryan ticket. The presidency is too much of a popularity contest. I wish it wasn't, but it has become that.

The cool dude, as you describe him, was a pretty damn good president. I say that as a Romney voter. America did the right thing returning Obama to the White House.
 
Ding Ding Ding. Almost certainly not. But we wanted to elect the cool dude. Romney was a little odd, but had a track record of success. I voted enthusiastically for the Romney/Ryan ticket. The presidency is too much of a popularity contest. I wish it wasn't, but it has become that.
Obama wasn’t elected in 2012 because he was “cool” he was elected in 2012 because he successfully led us out of recession despite constant Republican obstruction that was specifically designed to slow recovery and defeat his agenda.
 
Obama wasn’t elected in 2012 because he was “cool” he was elected in 2012 because he successfully led us out of recession despite constant Republican obstruction that was specifically designed to slow recovery and defeat his agenda.

Oh, compared to Trump & Biden, yes, but that isn't hard to do.
 
Obama wasn’t elected in 2012 because he was “cool” he was elected in 2012 because he successfully led us out of recession despite constant Republican obstruction that was specifically designed to slow recovery and defeat his agenda.
Yep, incumbents get reelected unless they jack things up pretty clearly. Trump would’ve clearly been reelected in 2020 if he wasn’t mangling the COVID crisis so badly.
 
I just can't get over what people see in Trump. It's less about why she lost, but how could he win.

A convicted felon, serial sexual harrasser, insurrectionist/ traitor, multiple bankruptcies, multiple marriages w/ infidelity, narcissitic sociopath, said to be incompotent/ dangerous/ unfit by a majority of his previous cabinet.


There is not one redeeming quality about the man or even his presidency with the exception that there is a perception that "I" was better off during his term than Biden's. It is a reality I can't understand. There is no amount of debate about what went wrong for Democrats that will ever make sense or provide a path forward for them. As someone said on another thread, we'll have to wait until it all collaspses and have to pickup the pieces New Deal style again.
In my view, it boils down to the average person caring primarily about their own financial situation and being susceptible to snake oil sales tactics.

Trump is a despicable person and seems relatively unintelligent, but he is also a shrewd political salesman and recognizes the basic financial pain points that the average working class American is feeling. Even though he is vague on the details of how he is going to actually solve those things (purposefully so, because he doesn’t have any intention in doing that), he still constantly presses on those same basic pain points over and over again mixed with the right amount of racist and misogynist dog whistle rhetoric, until his messaging resonates with a majority of the electorate.

Contrast that with Kamala. By all accounts she seems like a decent person as far as politicians go, and is intelligent and as qualified on paper as anyone to be president. Unfortunately, her personality when she campaigns, makes speeches, debates, etc, comes across to a lot of people as corny, out of touch, and inauthentic. Would that really make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things in terms of how she would perform as president? I don’t think so. We’re talking about how to win an election though, and those type of personality traits matter a lot.

All of this stuff keeps bringing me back to Bernie Sanders. Throw out his specific policies for argument’s sake. When he was in the spotlight during previous campaign cycles, he seemed earnest in a genuine way, he understood the pain points of the average American, and he was concise and consistent with his messaging about he was going to solve those things. I think the Democratic Party desperately needs someone with that sort of personality to step up or they will assuredly keep getting pantsed in these elections.
 
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Obama wasn’t elected in 2012 because he was “cool” he was elected in 2012 because he successfully led us out of recession despite constant Republican obstruction that was specifically designed to slow recovery and defeat his agenda.

Funny how his first term mirrors Biden's.
 
Nope. I don't think so. Trump is a reaction to an Obama 2 term presidency

I disagree--to cobble together his white rural base, Trump required the implosion of the Republican party under GWB and the New Democrat deregulatory efforts of the 1990s.
 
In my view, it boils down to the average person caring primarily about their own financial situation and being susceptible to snake oil sales tactics.

Trump is a despicable person and seems relatively unintelligent, but he is also a shrewd political salesman and recognizes the basic financial pain points that the average working class American is feeling. Even though he is vague on the details of how he is going to actually solve those things (purposefully so, because he doesn’t have any intention in doing that), he still constantly presses on those same basic pain points over and over again mixed with the right amount of racist and misogynist dog whistle rhetoric, until his messaging resonates with a majority of the electorate.

Contrast that with Kamala. By all accounts she seems like a decent person as far as politicians go, and is intelligent and as qualified on paper as anyone to be president. Unfortunately, her personality when she campaigns, makes speeches, debates, etc, comes across to a lot of people as corny, out of touch, and inauthentic. Would that really make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things in terms of how she would perform as president? I don’t think so. We’re talking about how to win an election though, and those type of personality traits matter a lot.

All of this stuff keeps bringing me back to Bernie Sanders. Throw out his specific policies for argument’s sake. When he was in the spotlight during previous campaign cycles, he seemed earnest in a genuine way, he understood the pain points of the average American, and he was concise and consistent with his messaging about he was going to solve those things. I think the Democratic Party desperately needs someone with that sort of personality to step up or they will assuredly keep getting pantsed in these elections.
This.

Not Bernie's policies specifically, but his attitude and perceived authenticity goes a very long way. Make a movement and people will vote for that movement, but you need the right kind of politician to break through. Obama did, Bernie did, and Trump did.

Be concise and ram that message home in every. single. speech. You aren't trying to appeal to this board, you are trying to appeal to the people that tune in once every 4 or if really pissed off 2 years.
 
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