Where do we go from here?

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breepf said:
I disagree--to cobble together his white rural base, Trump required the implosion of the Republican party under GWB and the New Democrat deregulatory efforts of the 1990s.
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We just witnessed the most brutally, explicitly racist and hate-filled political campaign since the 19th century from a party that has been running on demonizing dark skinned foreigners for a decade.

And somehow, in all of the post-mortems, I'm the only one mentioning race. I mean, did you even watch what was happening?

I thought we had learned that "economic anxiety" is nothing but code for racism. You know, the way it has always been. Even during Jim Crow, politicians didn't message, "we need to keep the n**** down" as much as "look at how these n****" are hurting our way of life." Look, they move into our neighborhoods and our house prices will drop. Look, they use drugs and cause crime. It's not that we hate the black people, they can't help themselves, it's just that they do all these bad things to us and we have to protect ourselves.

And right behind that was sexism, again as usual. What did Trump mean when he said Kamala can't be strong because, you know? We saw and read interviews with people (mostly men) wondering if a woman is too emotional to run the country, to be commander in chief, etc. etc.

But sure, it's the fault of the New Democrats in the 1990s. It was those feckless policies that caused the southern states to become a solid bloc in favor of the party hostile to minority rights. Because that had never happened before. Only the New Democrats caused the South to slip away, and it would have stayed blue forever if only we had not gutted union rights in those states. Oh, what's that? Those states have been "right to work" for decades? Well, it was still the fault of New Democrats. What's that? Those southern states started flipping to the GOP immediately after and clearly as a result of the Civil Rights movement, and the process has continued apace? Well, never mind. It was the New Democrats fault.
 
rodoheel said:
Obama wasn’t elected in 2012 because he was “cool” he was elected in 2012 because he successfully led us out of recession despite constant Republican obstruction that was specifically designed to slow recovery and defeat his agenda.
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He also held on by narrowly winning blue wall states against an opponent who was thoroughly hated by blue wall state residents on account of said opponent having stolen millions of pensions.

The financial crisis was still in people's minds and Romney came from the class of people who created it.
 
GoHeelsweeeehoooo said:
So who is the leader of the Democratic party now? Hakeem Jefferies ?
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IMO mostly. And that's a good thing. But it's also OK not to have a set leader.

To be honest, I want to see our next pres candidate go to the field and stuff NOT wearing suits. Dont act stuffy. Be a person
 
superrific said:
And then the GOP won back the House in the very next election. They didn't get showed. Obama's steady leadership saved us, and then they went back to their old bullshit.
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Which is why we might just have to let Trump burn it all down (within reason).

MAGA is a cancer and most cancers aren't cured without a significant amount of suffering.
 
superrific said:
We just witnessed the most brutally, explicitly racist and hate-filled political campaign since the 19th century from a party that has been running on demonizing dark skinned foreigners for a decade.

And somehow, in all of the post-mortems, I'm the only one mentioning race. I mean, did you even watch what was happening?

I thought we had learned that "economic anxiety" is nothing but code for racism. You know, the way it has always been. Even during Jim Crow, politicians didn't message, "we need to keep the n**** down" as much as "look at how these n****" are hurting our way of life." Look, they move into our neighborhoods and our house prices will drop. Look, they use drugs and cause crime. It's not that we hate the black people, they can't help themselves, it's just that they do all these bad things to us and we have to protect ourselves.

And right behind that was sexism, again as usual. What did Trump mean when he said Kamala can't be strong because, you know? We saw and read interviews with people (mostly men) wondering if a woman is too emotional to run the country, to be commander in chief, etc. etc.

But sure, it's the fault of the New Democrats in the 1990s. It was those feckless policies that caused the southern states to become a solid bloc in favor of the party hostile to minority rights. Because that had never happened before. Only the New Democrats caused the South to slip away, and it would have stayed blue forever if only we had not gutted union rights in those states. Oh, what's that? Those states have been "right to work" for decades? Well, it was still the fault of New Democrats. What's that? Those southern states started flipping to the GOP immediately after and clearly as a result of the Civil Rights movement, and the process has continued apace? Well, never mind. It was the New Democrats fault.
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Trump got 46% of the Hispanic vote, bro.
 
superrific said:
We just witnessed the most brutally, explicitly racist and hate-filled political campaign since the 19th century from a party that has been running on demonizing dark skinned foreigners for a decade.

And somehow, in all of the post-mortems, I'm the only one mentioning race. I mean, did you even watch what was happening?

I thought we had learned that "economic anxiety" is nothing but code for racism. You know, the way it has always been. Even during Jim Crow, politicians didn't message, "we need to keep the n**** down" as much as "look at how these n****" are hurting our way of life." Look, they move into our neighborhoods and our house prices will drop. Look, they use drugs and cause crime. It's not that we hate the black people, they can't help themselves, it's just that they do all these bad things to us and we have to protect ourselves.

And right behind that was sexism, again as usual. What did Trump mean when he said Kamala can't be strong because, you know? We saw and read interviews with people (mostly men) wondering if a woman is too emotional to run the country, to be commander in chief, etc. etc.

But sure, it's the fault of the New Democrats in the 1990s. It was those feckless policies that caused the southern states to become a solid bloc in favor of the party hostile to minority rights. Because that had never happened before. Only the New Democrats caused the South to slip away, and it would have stayed blue forever if only we had not gutted union rights in those states. Oh, what's that? Those states have been "right to work" for decades? Well, it was still the fault of New Democrats. What's that? Those southern states started flipping to the GOP immediately after and clearly as a result of the Civil Rights movement, and the process has continued apace? Well, never mind. It was the New Democrats fault.
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Your post just doesn’t match reality. Harris performed better than Biden with white males, and worse with suburban women, Latinos and Blacks. If this is racism and sexism, the votes don’t show it.
 
fssheels said:
Your post just doesn’t match reality. Harris performed better than Biden with white males, and worse with suburban women, Latinos and Blacks. If this is racism and sexism, the votes don’t show it.
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1. You're just lying about how Harris performed. Here's what I've read from the AP:

apnews.com

How 5 key demographic groups voted in 2024: AP VoteCast

Donald Trump won the presidency after holding tight to his core base of voters and slightly expanding his coalition to include several groups that have traditionally been a part of the Democratic base.
apnews.com apnews.com

"Slightly more than 8 in 10 Trump voters in this election were white, roughly in line with 2020. About two-thirds of Harris’ voters were white, and that largely matched President Joe Biden ’s coalition in the last election. White voters make up a bulk of the voting electorate in the United States, and they did not shift their support significantly at the national level compared to 2020."

I mean, what are you arguing here? That Trump wasn't racist in 2020? Trump has been the most racist major party candidate for president since . . . I don't even know. Certainly in my lifetime. He's been that way since the beginning. So if Harris did better with white men, it's largely because the education divide is firmly established. In 2020, educated people were shifting Dem but the realignment hadn't fully happened.

2. You think that women can't be racist? Or Latinos? Seriously?

3. The reality is that Trump ran the most racist campaign in modern history. That is not in dispute. Is it your position that nothing Trump did during his campaign had any impact whatsoever? Why was he talking about people coming here from Congo? Being released from prisons there? Why was he claiming that armed gangs of brown people -- their AI images ALWAYS featured dark skin -- were occupying towns all over the Midwest? Why did he focus on the Haitians in Ohio?

Again, maybe the racism of Trump since 2016 -- the never-ending, non-stop racism that began with rapists and murderers coming from Mexico -- was actually a big head fake and had no impact on his support. But I tend to think that's not true. Trump's appeal is that he has given the racists permission to be proud of their racism.
 
breepf said:
Trump got 46% of the Hispanic vote, bro.
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Bro, the "hispanic" vote consists of lots of people who also identify as white. The hispanic vote is not monolithic, as people come from many different places for different reasons at different times. And many of those countries also feature profound racism against darker skinned people. Read something about it. Here, I'll give you a starter

en.wikipedia.org

Racism in Venezuela - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org

Race and ethnicity in Latin America - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
www.paho.org

Afro-descendants in Latin American countries live in starkly unequal conditions that impact health and well-being, PAHO study shows

Inequities for Afro-descendants include higher rates of maternal mortality and lack of access to education, jobs, adequate housing, and basic services such as safe water and sanitation. Washington, D.C. December 3, 2021 (PAHO) – A new study of Afro-descendant populations in 18 Latin American...
www.paho.org www.paho.org
 
superrific said:
1. You're just lying about how Harris performed. Here's what I've read from the AP:

apnews.com

How 5 key demographic groups voted in 2024: AP VoteCast

Donald Trump won the presidency after holding tight to his core base of voters and slightly expanding his coalition to include several groups that have traditionally been a part of the Democratic base.
apnews.com apnews.com

"Slightly more than 8 in 10 Trump voters in this election were white, roughly in line with 2020. About two-thirds of Harris’ voters were white, and that largely matched President Joe Biden ’s coalition in the last election. White voters make up a bulk of the voting electorate in the United States, and they did not shift their support significantly at the national level compared to 2020."

I mean, what are you arguing here? That Trump wasn't racist in 2020? Trump has been the most racist major party candidate for president since . . . I don't even know. Certainly in my lifetime. He's been that way since the beginning. So if Harris did better with white men, it's largely because the education divide is firmly established. In 2020, educated people were shifting Dem but the realignment hadn't fully happened.

2. You think that women can't be racist? Or Latinos? Seriously?

3. The reality is that Trump ran the most racist campaign in modern history. That is not in dispute. Is it your position that nothing Trump did during his campaign had any impact whatsoever? Why was he talking about people coming here from Congo? Being released from prisons there? Why was he claiming that armed gangs of brown people -- their AI images ALWAYS featured dark skin -- were occupying towns all over the Midwest? Why did he focus on the Haitians in Ohio?

Again, maybe the racism of Trump since 2016 -- the never-ending, non-stop racism that began with rapists and murderers coming from Mexico -- was actually a big head fake and had no impact on his support. But I tend to think that's not true. Trump's appeal is that he has given the racists permission to be proud of their racism.
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From your article:


Nationally, about 8 in 10 Black voters supported Harris. But, that was down from about 9 in 10 in the last presidential election who went for Biden.

Trump about doubled his share of young Black men – which helped him among key Democratic voting group. About 3 in 10 Black men under the age of 45 went for Trump, roughly double the number he got in 2020.
 
fssheels said:
From your article:


Nationally, about 8 in 10 Black voters supported Harris. But, that was down from about 9 in 10 in the last presidential election who went for Biden.

Trump about doubled his share of young Black men – which helped him among key Democratic voting group. About 3 in 10 Black men under the age of 45 went for Trump, roughly double the number he got in 2020.
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Other things have said his black support went up 1 point. What's correct?
 
superrific said:
We just witnessed the most brutally, explicitly racist and hate-filled political campaign since the 19th century from a party that has been running on demonizing dark skinned foreigners for a decade.

And somehow, in all of the post-mortems, I'm the only one mentioning race. I mean, did you even watch what was happening?

I thought we had learned that "economic anxiety" is nothing but code for racism. You know, the way it has always been. Even during Jim Crow, politicians didn't message, "we need to keep the n**** down" as much as "look at how these n****" are hurting our way of life." Look, they move into our neighborhoods and our house prices will drop. Look, they use drugs and cause crime. It's not that we hate the black people, they can't help themselves, it's just that they do all these bad things to us and we have to protect ourselves.

And right behind that was sexism, again as usual. What did Trump mean when he said Kamala can't be strong because, you know? We saw and read interviews with people (mostly men) wondering if a woman is too emotional to run the country, to be commander in chief, etc. etc.

But sure, it's the fault of the New Democrats in the 1990s. It was those feckless policies that caused the southern states to become a solid bloc in favor of the party hostile to minority rights. Because that had never happened before. Only the New Democrats caused the South to slip away, and it would have stayed blue forever if only we had not gutted union rights in those states. Oh, what's that? Those states have been "right to work" for decades? Well, it was still the fault of New Democrats. What's that? Those southern states started flipping to the GOP immediately after and clearly as a result of the Civil Rights movement, and the process has continued apace? Well, never mind. It was the New Democrats fault.
Click to expand...
You’re a meme.
 
superrific said:
Bro, the "hispanic" vote consists of lots of people who also identify as white. The hispanic vote is not monolithic, as people come from many different places for different reasons at different times. And many of those countries also feature profound racism against darker skinned people. Read something about it. Here, I'll give you a starter

en.wikipedia.org

Racism in Venezuela - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org

Race and ethnicity in Latin America - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
www.paho.org

Afro-descendants in Latin American countries live in starkly unequal conditions that impact health and well-being, PAHO study shows

Inequities for Afro-descendants include higher rates of maternal mortality and lack of access to education, jobs, adequate housing, and basic services such as safe water and sanitation. Washington, D.C. December 3, 2021 (PAHO) – A new study of Afro-descendant populations in 18 Latin American...
www.paho.org www.paho.org
Click to expand...

Trump lost ground with all whites and white men, see below.


Trump wins 57% of white voters nationwide; Harris wins 41%. Trump's share is down 1 percentage point from a 2020 exit poll.
* Harris wins 85% of Black voters nationwide; Trump wins 13%. Trump's share is up 1 percentage point from a 2020 exit poll.
* Trump wins 46% of Hispanic voters nationwide; Harris wins 52%. Trump's share is up 14 percentage points from a 2020 exit poll.
* Trump wins 60% of white men voters nationwide; Harris wins 37%. Trump's share is down 1 percentage point from a 2020 exit poll.
 
fssheels said:
Trump lost ground with all whites and white men, see below.


Trump wins 57% of white voters nationwide; Harris wins 41%. Trump's share is down 1 percentage point from a 2020 exit poll.
* Harris wins 85% of Black voters nationwide; Trump wins 13%. Trump's share is up 1 percentage point from a 2020 exit poll.
* Trump wins 46% of Hispanic voters nationwide; Harris wins 52%. Trump's share is up 14 percentage points from a 2020 exit poll.
* Trump wins 60% of white men voters nationwide; Harris wins 37%. Trump's share is down 1 percentage point from a 2020 exit poll.
Click to expand...
1. This movement, except for Latinos, is statistically insignificant;
2. The exit poll data is not final at all. It's good enough to understand the Latino shift. It's not good enough (and probably never will be) to discern one point differences that are within the margin of error.
3. It's not as if they were running a racist candidate this year and a non-racist in 2020. It was the same guy who has been a virulent racist his entire life, and whose racism was the key to his initial entry into politics.
4. Why should I talk with you when you live in a different reality? You're just showing, yet again, that Trump supporters are who we think they are.
 
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