Where do we go from here?

[tarheelbillie]

I have felt the disdain here for 3rd parties. But I truly believe there is a great sea of moderate politically-minded wannabe voters just waiting for a charismatic leader. A leader not associated with extremes. A democracy can only be governed from the center. If it ain't in the center, it ain't a democracy.

 

[finesse]

At this point it's pretty clear in my mind that I live in a bubble and that this board is a super-bubble. As a group we are completely out of touch with the average American. I'm as guilty as anyone of this (actually moreso) but the condescention to conservatives isn't working. Liberals as a group have what I would call a "bad case of better than". This con man is likely going to win the popular vote and unfortunately just proclaiming that every single person that voted for him is an idiot is not a practical way of looking at it.

How good is the economy really? It's damn good if you have an IRA and a good job. It sucks if you live in a small town, have the same job you always had, and the extra $300 you had left over every month after paying all your monthly bills is now eaten up by the price of groceries. We're just out of touch. Not all the people who cast these votes are bad people but a lot of them are straight up "fuck you" votes. We all need to step back and take a look at ourselves. When I see a Trumper struggling my thought has typically been "he's struggling because he's not that bright to begin with and wants someone to blame other than himself for his predicament." And unfortunately many of us project that kind of arrogance which makes a lot of people hate us even more than we hate Trump.

I don't have time to write a novel right now. Maybe tonight when I'm drinking this off I'll come back and vent. But I'm pretty humbled by this and those are my initial thoughts.

Does that mean that since I'm a redneck white male blue collar worker with a high school education I can be condescending? Just checking. Some of them deserve it.

Otoh, in 45 years of carpentry and related work, I don't think I ever ran into anyone, no matter how dumb they might act, that wasn't better than me at something. If your first thoughts are that they are stupid, you are indeed arrogant. They may be that or drug addicted or come from an extremely difficult start that made it difficult to get a good start to life. Some of them are just normal people trying to feed their family. Some, like me, are liberal. In other words, you can't look for a solution that has no room for the exceptions.

I still believe that finding some way to establish a shared source to trusted information is essential, though.

 

[mpaer]

Politics have become more tribal and Brown's/Tester's tribe didn't embrace their working class, everyman politics.

Not arguing with you
But can you clarify-give a couple of examples of policies

 

[Mulberry Heel]

Thia poast should be pinned on this board for the next four years.

Yes, I'll be sure to think of it when Trump and his base are saying they want to kill me and that I'm evil and anti-Christian and support perverts and pedophiles and that the presidential candidate I voted for is a cunt and a bitch. I will certainly plan to be humble and modest around such people while they yell insults at me wearing their Trump gear and Jesus Saves stickers on the back of their truck or SUV. Respect is a two-way street, and arrogance is hardly limited to liberals.

 

[Mulberry Heel]

I have felt the disdain here for 3rd parties. But I truly believe there is a great sea of moderate politically-minded wannabe voters just waiting for a charismatic leader. A leader not associated with extremes. A democracy can only be governed from the center. If it ain't in the center, it ain't a democracy.

The problem with third parties is that the electoral college and winner-take-all system on which it is based (at least in every state except Maine and Nebraska) make it nearly impossible for third parties to ever win a presidential election. And the single-district system used in the House of Representatives also makes it very difficult for third parties to get a foothold in the system, at least for more than an election cycle or two. IMO, the only way that a third party might ever become a serious force in US politics is if the electoral college is abolished, which isn't going to happen, at least in my lifetime anyway.

 

[mpaer]

The problem with third parties is that the electoral college and winner-take-all system on which it is based (at least in every state except Maine and Nebraska) make it nearly impossible for third parties to ever win a presidential election. And the single-district system used in the House of Representatives also makes it very difficult for third parties to get a foothold in the system, at least for more than an election cycle or two. IMO, the only way that a third party might ever become a serious force in US politics is if the electoral college is abolished, which isn't going to happen, at least in my lifetime anyway.

I don't want a third party I don't want a bunch of uncommitted "Independants " It just muddies the damn water

 

[Croatoan]

Yes, I'll be sure to think of it when Trump and his base are saying they want to kill me and that I'm evil and anti-Christian and support perverts and pedophiles and that the presidential candidate I voted for is a cunt and a bitch. I will certainly plan to be humble and modest around such people while they yell insults at me wearing their Trump gear and Jesus Saves stickers on the back of their truck or SUV. Respect is a two-way street, and arrogance is hardly limited to liberals.

I’ve seen less melodrama binge-watching every season of Dawson’s Creek than in this one poast.

 

[HeelYeah2012]

At this point it's pretty clear in my mind that I live in a bubble and that this board is a super-bubble. As a group we are completely out of touch with the average American. I'm as guilty as anyone of this (actually moreso) but the condescention to conservatives isn't working. Liberals as a group have what I would call a "bad case of better than". This con man is likely going to win the popular vote and unfortunately just proclaiming that every single person that voted for him is an idiot is not a practical way of looking at it.

How good is the economy really? It's damn good if you have an IRA and a good job. It sucks if you live in a small town, have the same job you always had, and the extra $300 you had left over every month after paying all your monthly bills is now eaten up by the price of groceries. We're just out of touch. Not all the people who cast these votes are bad people but a lot of them are straight up "fuck you" votes. We all need to step back and take a look at ourselves. When I see a Trumper struggling my thought has typically been "he's struggling because he's not that bright to begin with and wants someone to blame other than himself for his predicament." And unfortunately many of us project that kind of arrogance which makes a lot of people hate us even more than we hate Trump.

I don't have time to write a novel right now. Maybe tonight when I'm drinking this off I'll come back and vent. But I'm pretty humbled by this and those are my initial thoughts.

Might be the best post in the short history of this board. Should be required reading for everyone who posts here.

 

[Mulberry Heel]

I’ve seen less melodrama binge-watching every season of Dawson’s Creek than in this one poast.

Lollers. I've seen some good comebacks over the years, but that is one of the lamest I've seen. Dawson's Creek, seriously? And you didn't refute a single thing I posted.

 

[PandemicBlue]

At this point it's pretty clear in my mind that I live in a bubble and that this board is a super-bubble. As a group we are completely out of touch with the average American. I'm as guilty as anyone of this (actually moreso) but the condescention to conservatives isn't working. Liberals as a group have what I would call a "bad case of better than". This con man is likely going to win the popular vote and unfortunately just proclaiming that every single person that voted for him is an idiot is not a practical way of looking at it.

How good is the economy really? It's damn good if you have an IRA and a good job. It sucks if you live in a small town, have the same job you always had, and the extra $300 you had left over every month after paying all your monthly bills is now eaten up by the price of groceries. We're just out of touch. Not all the people who cast these votes are bad people but a lot of them are straight up "fuck you" votes. We all need to step back and take a look at ourselves. When I see a Trumper struggling my thought has typically been "he's struggling because he's not that bright to begin with and wants someone to blame other than himself for his predicament." And unfortunately many of us project that kind of arrogance which makes a lot of people hate us even more than we hate Trump.

I don't have time to write a novel right now. Maybe tonight when I'm drinking this off I'll come back and vent. But I'm pretty humbled by this and those are my initial thoughts.

You, and so many others, have been manipulated into believing so many things that are simply not true by a party, aided and abetted by the liberal media, who desperately wanted to stay in power. After 4 more years of another Trump presidency have passed and none of the dire consequences the left has warned you about actually happen, you need to ask yourself why you were so easily manipulated and after doing so, maybe get a little pissed off about it.

Donald Trump colluded with Russia, Jussie Smollett was attacked by two Trump supporters, Trump called White Supremacists good people, Hunter's laptop was Russian disinformation, Border Patrol was whipping migrants, the border is secure while millions of illegals walk across it and also while many more were being flown into cities all across this nation, Joe Biden is running circles around everybody behind the scenes....all lies. Were you convinced to believe any of it?

You want to know who is responsible for creating the vast majority of the division created over the last 8 years? The Democratic Party and the liberal media. The Democrats could have simply acknowledged that Trump beat Hillary, moved on and tried to find common ground. But no, they declared war on Trump and tried to win by any means necessary all the while trying to convince their supporters to hate Trump enough to play along. And in far too many cases it worked.

The nation has moved on from that BS. And if there are any people who still believe all the propaganda, spread across all the years, in an effort to convince you to hate Donald Trump....you are now in the minority. This election proves it.

 

[EhringhausSouth]

You, and so many others, have been manipulated into believing so many things that are simply not true by a party, aided and abetted by the liberal media, who desperately wanted to stay in power. After 4 more years of another Trump presidency have passed and none of the dire consequences the left has warned you about actually happen, you need to ask yourself why you were so easily manipulated and after doing so, maybe get a little pissed off about it.

Donald Trump colluded with Russia, Jussie Smollett was attacked by two Trump supporters, Trump call White Supremacists good people, Hunter's laptop was Russian disinformation, Border Patrol was whipping migrants, the border is secure while millions of illegals walk across it and also while many more were being flown into cities all across this nation, Joe Biden is running circles around everybody behind the scenes....all lies. Were you convinced to believe any of it?

You want to know who is responsible for creating the vast majority of the division created over the last 8 years? The Democratic Party and the liberal media. The Democrats could have simply acknowledged that Trump beat Hillary, moved on and tried to find common ground. But no, they declared war on Trump and tried to win by any means necessary all the while trying to convince their supporters to hate Trump enough to play along. And in far too many cases it worked.

The nation has moved on from that BS. And if there are any people who still believe all the propaganda, spread across all the years, in an effort to convince you to hate Donald Trump....you are now in the minority. This election proves it.

Be careful. Haha

 

[Healing]

We don't go anywhere from here. The most engaged and well meaning portion of the voting populace is now totally disengaged and will never again have a seat at the table. It's total idiocracy from this point forward for both parties.

This is my thought as well. I think we’re about to enter a surrealist horror movie, with an idiot version of Juan Peron, and his militias, as the villains.

 

[Healing]

As a group we are completely out of touch with the average American.

Jfc, speak for yourself. I’m literally in the fucking grime with magas everyday I go to work. Numerous other posters are as well. Just bc you may have become deluded by the over-the-top bullshit some posters sprayed blithely, in the weeks leading up, doesn’t mean “as a group” this board is a hermetically sealed ideology bubble.

 

[LosPollosHermanos]

I count myself among many on this board who grew up in rural towns, among rural whites.

I have 5 uncles and several cousins who are rural, blue collar folks—mechanics, farmers, volunteer firefighters, cops, etc.

All of them have been hardcore rightwingers for decades—the types who listened to Rush Limbaugh on AM radio back in the 80s/90s.

I went to HS in a rural white community, where most folks went to the same church.

My relatives and the folks in my community made fun of anyone who went to college. “Poindexters, liberals, and fags” go to college, they’d say. When I went to grad school for a grad degree in English, some of them snickered and muttered “***.” They still make homophobic jokes to this day—the fact that im a single 50-yr old guy, never married, no kids, is cause for their ire.

They called all the Hispanic immigrants who came through town for seasonal work on farms by the same name. “Jose’s” they’d call em. As in “Did ya see that truck full of Jose’s out yonder?”

They’d rail against black welfare queens and bitch and moan about the liberals taking god out of schools.

I see their seething hatred in every Trump rally. I hear it in the rants about childless cat women. I hear it cloaked in every interview with every white rural asshole who claims they really didn’t want to vote for Trump, but liberals forced them to because gas costs too much.

It has taken root over 40 years in rural communities. It’s the same as it ever was.

So you can miss me with this bullshit.

Yeah, I mean I may have grown up in the same town. And the people you describe no doubt exist and are common. I could go on about my experiences for ages and I will after I get my kids to bed and have a few nightcaps. But when you win a popular vote by 5 million, win every blue wall state, you're not just pulling from the raging rednecks. We've always known he is the pied piper of white trash, but his base is increasing into more normal seeming people. It's almost like a stage of Marxism is happening, but the white working class isn't just mad at the robber barons, they're fucking mad at everyone who isn't sweating the rent every month. And by God all we do is flame them about their plight and get them even more mad. Nobody is even trying to relate to them. The most we do to try and relate to them is pick an everyman VP whose net worth is only $300K. It's like the dems brushed them off and just said we don't need you, now go on about your business, losers. And it's not gonna work any more. There has to be a plan to reach the reasonable ones in there that might actually have a good reason to not like the libs so much and turn some of them around. We're fucking losing.

 

[Icky Mettle]

You, and so many others, have been manipulated into believing so many things that are simply not true by a party, aided and abetted by the liberal media, who desperately wanted to stay in power. After 4 more years of another Trump presidency have passed and none of the dire consequences the left has warned you about actually happen, you need to ask yourself why you were so easily manipulated and after doing so, maybe get a little pissed off about it.

Donald Trump colluded with Russia, Jussie Smollett was attacked by two Trump supporters, Trump call White Supremacists good people, Hunter's laptop was Russian disinformation, Border Patrol was whipping migrants, the border is secure while millions of illegals walk across it and also while many more were being flown into cities all across this nation, Joe Biden is running circles around everybody behind the scenes....all lies. Were you convinced to believe any of it?

You want to know who is responsible for creating the vast majority of the division created over the last 8 years? The Democratic Party and the liberal media. The Democrats could have simply acknowledged that Trump beat Hillary, moved on and tried to find common ground. But no, they declared war on Trump and tried to win by any means necessary all the while trying to convince their supporters to hate Trump enough to play along. And in far too many cases it worked.

The nation has moved on from that BS. And if there are any people who still believe all the propaganda, spread across all the years, in an effort to convince you to hate Donald Trump....you are now in the minority. This election proves it.

Not sure if you’re being disingenuous or if that just a warped, misinformed view of dialect recent events.

 

[LosPollosHermanos]

Jfc, speak for yourself. I’m literally in the fucking grime with magas everyday I go to work. Numerous other posters are as well. Just bc you may have become deluded by the over-the-top bullshit some posters sprayed blithely, in the weeks leading up, doesn’t mean “as a group” this board is a hermetically sealed ideology bubble.

Yeah, there is a form of argument that takes one example and extrapolates from that one example that an entire premise is wrong. If you're super clued in, good for you, but that doesn't prove shit about this place. This board is in blue la la land and has been for years. If people just need a place to bitch and complain and make themselves feel better, well this is the place. But somebody needs to start thinking about what the fuck just happened and stop pretending that 75 million people are all just raging foaming at the mouth lunatics.

 

[korgguy1971]

Not sure if you’re being disingenuous or if that just a warped, misinformed view of dialect recent events.

Definitely disingenuous. PandumbicBoob is a vestige from the old ZZLP (where he was banned multiple times for trolling and derailing threads) and the TarPit, and he is essentially another riverheel. Do not engage.

 

[PandemicBlue]

Not sure if you’re being disingenuous or if that just a warped, misinformed view of dialect recent events.

I would like for you to tell me which of any of the things I listed spread by the liberal media as truth was actually true. You should be furious about having been lied to like that.

 

[EyeballKid]

I just see must of you stereotyping every single Trump voter into the


Yeah, I mean I may have grown up in the same town. And the people you describe no doubt exist and are common. I could go on about my experiences for ages and I will after I get my kids to bed and have a few nightcaps. But when you win a popular vote by 5 million, win every blue wall state, you're not just pulling from the raging rednecks. We've always known he is the pied piper of white trash, but his base is increasing into more normal seeming people. It's almost like a stage of Marxism is happening, but the white working class isn't just mad at the robber barons, they're fucking mad at everyone who isn't sweating the rent every month. And by God all we do is flame them about their plight and get them even more mad. Nobody is even trying to relate to them. The most we do to try and relate to them is pick an everyman VP whose net worth is only $300K. It's like the dems brushed them off and just said we don't need you, now go on about your business, losers. And it's not gonna work any more. There has to be a plan to reach the reasonable ones in there that might actually have a good reason to not like the libs so much and turn some of them around. We're fucking losing.

Bullshit.

Dems consistently lay out plans to help rural WWC people. Kamala talked about going after price gougers, had plans for $25k subsidies for first-time homebuyers and tax breaks for construction companies. Liz Warren had myriad plans. Hillary noted the need to fund re-training programs and vo-tech programs for those in rural/depressed areas.

No rural white folks gave a fuck about any of those plans.

That’s why your whole idea rings false. They’re not looking for real solutions. They’re not interested in policy positions and in government officials who provide well-researched and informed answers to difficult problems.

They’re motivated by hate and rage. Racial, socioeconomic, gender-based hate and rage. And Trump is the human manifestation of all of that rage.

 

[farce©]

There will be plenty of times for postmortems. Pretty much nothing discussed here today is of value. Most of the “analysis” of the election I’ve read on this board today is butthurt bullshit. At least wait until the body is cold (and we have good data) before opining on solutions.