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Where do we go from here?

  • Thread starter Thread starter rodoheel
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  • Politics 
Icky Mettle said:
Not sure if you’re being disingenuous or if that just a warped, misinformed view of dialect recent events.
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Definitely disingenuous. PandumbicBoob is a vestige from the old ZZLP (where he was banned multiple times for trolling and derailing threads) and the TarPit, and he is essentially another riverheel. Do not engage.
 
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Icky Mettle said:
Not sure if you’re being disingenuous or if that just a warped, misinformed view of dialect recent events.
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I would like for you to tell me which of any of the things I listed spread by the liberal media as truth was actually true. You should be furious about having been lied to like that.
 
LosPollosHermanos said:
I just see must of you stereotyping every single Trump voter into the


Yeah, I mean I may have grown up in the same town. And the people you describe no doubt exist and are common. I could go on about my experiences for ages and I will after I get my kids to bed and have a few nightcaps. But when you win a popular vote by 5 million, win every blue wall state, you're not just pulling from the raging rednecks. We've always known he is the pied piper of white trash, but his base is increasing into more normal seeming people. It's almost like a stage of Marxism is happening, but the white working class isn't just mad at the robber barons, they're fucking mad at everyone who isn't sweating the rent every month. And by God all we do is flame them about their plight and get them even more mad. Nobody is even trying to relate to them. The most we do to try and relate to them is pick an everyman VP whose net worth is only $300K. It's like the dems brushed them off and just said we don't need you, now go on about your business, losers. And it's not gonna work any more. There has to be a plan to reach the reasonable ones in there that might actually have a good reason to not like the libs so much and turn some of them around. We're fucking losing.
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Bullshit.

Dems consistently lay out plans to help rural WWC people. Kamala talked about going after price gougers, had plans for $25k subsidies for first-time homebuyers and tax breaks for construction companies. Liz Warren had myriad plans. Hillary noted the need to fund re-training programs and vo-tech programs for those in rural/depressed areas.

No rural white folks gave a fuck about any of those plans.

That’s why your whole idea rings false. They’re not looking for real solutions. They’re not interested in policy positions and in government officials who provide well-researched and informed answers to difficult problems.

They’re motivated by hate and rage. Racial, socioeconomic, gender-based hate and rage. And Trump is the human manifestation of all of that rage.
 
There will be plenty of times for postmortems. Pretty much nothing discussed here today is of value. Most of the “analysis” of the election I’ve read on this board today is butthurt bullshit. At least wait until the body is cold (and we have good data) before opining on solutions.
 
LosPollosHermanos said:
Yeah, there is a form of argument that takes one example and extrapolates from that one example that an entire premise is wrong.
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Same goes for the assumptions one imbues into another’s post.

There’s a reason I might selectively refute a quote, while leaving the remainder of the post unopposed.
 
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korgguy1971 said:
Definitely disingenuous. PandumbicBoob is a vestige from the old ZZLP (where he was banned multiple times for trolling and derailing threads) and the TarPit, and he is essentially another riverheel. Do not engage.
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I post what I believe and newsflash, Donald Trump just won....by the popular vote no less. Enough people have seen through the lies. Don't be like the Japanese soldier lost in the jungle who for 29 years, continued to fight as if WWII wasn't over.

And I was never banned from the TarPit. I was banned multiple times from the ZZLP but the fact that Inside Carolina unloaded that board kinda speaks for itself.
 
PandemicBlue said:
I post what I believe and newsflash, Donald Trump just won....by the popular vote no less. Enough people have seen through the lies. Don't be like the Japanese soldier lost in the jungle who for 29 years, continued to fight as if WWII wasn't over.

And I was never banned from the TarPit. I was banned multiple times from the ZZLP but the fact that Inside Carolina unloaded that board kinda speaks for itself.
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He didn’t write that you were banned from The Tar Pit.

Reading IS Fundamental.
 
LosPollosHermanos said:
Yeah, there is a form of argument that takes one example and extrapolates from that one example that an entire premise is wrong. If you're super clued in, good for you, but that doesn't prove shit about this place. This board is in blue la la land and has been for years. If people just need a place to bitch and complain and make themselves feel better, well this is the place. But somebody needs to start thinking about what the fuck just happened and stop pretending that 75 million people are all just raging foaming at the mouth lunatics.
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You are literally posting on a thread that is for us to "start thinking about what the fuck just happened" and not "pretending that 75 million people are all just raging foaming at the mouth lunatics." This is from the second part of my initial two-part post starting the thread:

"Dems have no path forward unless they can rebuild their relationship with working-class populations. Messaging has to be crafted to appeal to them. We have to meet them where they are. They want messaging that appeals to them emotionally, not rationally. Not just economic messaging, but cultural messaging. Too many of them were convinced by the Pied Pipers of Trump, Fox News, et al that liberals hate them and look down on them, and in our frustration about them fleeing to Trump we made that easy to believe. And we can't just blame racism or culture-war grievances, because working-class minorities fled to Trump too. How do we message to them in a way that is coherent without alienating the more progressive parts of the liberal coalition? Not a dilemma I'd want to solve."

Stop lecturing us like you're the only person here who knows a Republican and/or understands that Democrats have lost working class voters and need to appeal to them better. It is no more productive to say that the only reason working class people vote for Trump is that college-educated liberals talk down to them than it is to say that the only reason people vote for Trump is that they're "raging foaming at the mouth lunatics." Of course 75 million people aren't raging foaming at the mouth lunatics. But placing the lion's share of the blame for Trump's success on the idea that liberals refuse to talk to or try to understand Trump voters is asinine. For Christ's sake, between 2016 and now we must have had 15,000 versions of the New York Times article "I met with Trump voters in a small-town diner to talk with them and try to understand them better." Are Fox News and Tucker Carlson doing pieces like that to try to help their viewers understand where liberals and progressives are coming from? Hell no; it's a lot easier to just paint us all as trans commie soy boys who want to impose mandatory sensitivity training for anyone who doesn't live within five minutes of a Starbucks.

We definitely have a big problem in this country with voters from different backgrounds not knowing or understanding each other, but that's a problem that cuts across all demographics in all directions. I'm fairly confident that liberals have done more to try to understand MAGA voters than the other way around, even if most of us still haven't done enough.
 
rodoheel said:
Breaking news: according to progressives, a more progressive candidate would have apparently won every single election a Democrat ever lost.
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Just posting a relevant article from a thoughtful mind on the left.
 
Calheel said:
Keep in mind that we are only talking about 3% of the voting population; it is not everyone.

Also, just because Trump ran on certain themes does not mean that is what moved that 3% to vote. I tend to think that the 3% -- especially the latino voters -- were almost exclusively inflation voters. Inflation hurt working class people the most. Americans typically vote their pocketbooks above all other issues. I think it was as simple as blaming Biden for inflation and remembering that inflation was low under Trump.

The border, crime, Ukraine, transgenderism -- all of those issues are effective with the base that was already going to vote for Trump. But when it comes right down to what motivated those 3% to vote for Trump rather than Harris, I think it is simply the economy, stupid.

Which means, if the economy goes gang busters the next four years, Republicans will stay in power. And if the economy goes in the toilet, Democrats will get in power.

I think it is as simple as that.
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Agreed here, but a caveat, messaging and finger-pointing needs to be improved even IF the economy does tank quickly enough. Repubs will lie regarding economy and/or blame dems. (they'll also lie about crime, or dem stone-walling regarding immigration reform, healthcare reform, etc).
 
Lando said:
There’s enough focus on the WWC and rural America that it hurts Democrats with the base. Trump unapologetically tries to help Republicans and only Republicans. With all the attention paid to understanding rural America and endless talk about the need for a strong Republican Party Democrats have convinced a portion of the base that Republicans fight harder for their people.

For all the talk of being in bubbles a number of people seem to think it’s 1996. The game is different, you can’t just craft a policy message that appeals to just the right portion of the political middle and win.
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The economic policies that help the WWC are the same policies that help the base. You’re conflating WWC with political middle. That’s not accurate.
 
PandemicBlue said:
I would like for you to tell me which of any of the things I listed spread by the liberal media as truth was actually true.
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Won’t get into everything. Will just touch upon a few things.

We all have seen the things Trump has done and said. That’s all there for you to see and hear. You go ahead and spin why his rhetoric hasn’t been divisive, mean-spirited, violent, and dishonest.

When he won in 2016, Hillary conceded. I don’t recall her or Dems saying the election was stolen or trying to talk a Secretary of State into “finding” just enough votes to win a state or organizing a rally to attempt to stop the certification of votes or file multiple frivolous lawsuits challenging vote counts. The Russian interference did not mean the election was not legit; it was a national security concern. The Mueller report has information regarding the Trump campaign’s interactions with Russians Messi g up to the election. You can read it.

Jussie Smollett? Sorry, that wasn’t something Dems by and large were rallying around. He made a false claim that was reported. When it was first reported it wasn’t like most Dems were making a big deal out of it. The story really got “big” when it became obvious it was a false claim. Dems didn’t dispute that it was as false claim. It was right wingers who wanted to make a big deal about the whole thing when Dems were like, “Okay, that piece of shit lied. Who the fuck is that guy anyway and why did his claim become a story in the first place?”

Re: illegals crossing the border who was ready to sign a border bill to beef up border security? And who told republicans in Congress not to let it pass because it may look good for Biden and would take away a talking point for that person’s campaign. Tell me the specifics of Trump’s border policy vs. that of Biden. By the way do you know how border crossings/encounters are assessed?

And the folks who crossed the border and were flown to cities weren’t “illegals.” They were asylum seekers, which means they did not cross illegally.

And it’s not like it’s just Dems that have called Trump out for his shenanigans. Many of the people who have worked closest with him have, calling him a a threat to national security and incompetent. I’m sure you’ll counter that by saying that they had an axe to grind or they were incompetent or whatever. But, hypothetically, if that were the case, what it does it say about Trump if he surrounded himself with so many of those people?

I don’t have your initial post that I responded to right in front of me, so I can’t remember every detail of your post that could warrant a response. Not that it matters anyway. I’m sure typing this was just a fool’s errand.
 
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Unc12003 said:
I wonder who the right is going to blame when the price of everything we buy goes up 20% sending us straight into a depression. When they control congress and the White House how will it be the democrats fault?
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They'll figure a way, and if Rogan and Elon and everyone else repeat the lie enough sheeple will believe it. Of course the "anybody but the incumbent" factor will help regardless of the lies... so the only hope is that people truly do just vote with their pocket-book. But in that case we're kinda assholes for hoping poor and middle-class feel pain.
 
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