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Where do we go from here?

  • Thread starter Thread starter rodoheel
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finesse said:
Just fwiw, only about a sixth of the middle class in the US is rural. When you say it disappeared, you were right but it was more completely than just for one party. I have no idea how that 17% split but it's not a large segment for any party.
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A little more on this topic. That figure represents about 8% of the nation. Here's a good article on the "decline" of the middle class that has dropped from 61 to 51% of the population. It's worthy of note that the main reason is they moved to the upper class.

www.pewresearch.org

The State of the American Middle Class

As the financial divide has grown, a smaller share of Americans now live in middle-class households. Here are key facts about this group.
www.pewresearch.org www.pewresearch.org
 
Paine said:
Not sure how you can have the opinions that you’ve posted numerous times today and not think Sanders would’ve beaten Trump in 2016.
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I sincerely doubt that Sanders would have beaten Trump in 2016 because I don’t think “the middle” in America would turn out for a progressive in the numbers needed to win.

But, in hindsight, I do wish Dems had run Bernie in 2016 as either Bernie would have won and prevented Trump from taking office or have lost and progressives would have learned that left-center liberalism is as far as America is willing to go.
 
Go back to 2000. If the Supreme Court hadn’t put its finger on the scale to install George W Bush none of this shit happens. But “what ifs” are a fool’s errand.
 
farce© said:
Go back to 2000. If the Supreme Court hadn’t put its finger on the scale to install George W Bush none of this shit happens. But “what ifs” are a fool’s errand.
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Still think that was a lot more about the earlier voter purge than either the SCOTUS or any hanging chads/ ballot count issues.
 
LosPollosHermanos said:
At this point it's pretty clear in my mind that I live in a bubble and that this board is a super-bubble. As a group we are completely out of touch with the average American. I'm as guilty as anyone of this (actually moreso) but the condescension to conservatives isn't working. Liberals as a group have what I would call a "bad case of better than". This con man is likely going to win the popular vote and unfortunately just proclaiming that every single person that voted for him is an idiot is not a practical way of looking at it.

How good is the economy really? It's damn good if you have an IRA and a good job. It sucks if you live in a small town, have the same job you always had, and the extra $300 you had left over every month after paying all your monthly bills is now eaten up by the price of groceries. We're just out of touch. Not all the people who cast these votes are bad people but a lot of them are straight up "fuck you" votes. We all need to step back and take a look at ourselves. When I see a Trumper struggling my thought has typically been "he's struggling because he's not that bright to begin with and wants someone to blame other than himself for his predicament." And unfortunately many of us project that kind of arrogance which makes a lot of people hate us even more than we hate Trump.

I don't have time to write a novel right now. Maybe tonight when I'm drinking this off I'll come back and vent. But I'm pretty humbled by this and those are my initial thoughts.
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Interesting post.

I find it interesting that many conservatives are the bootstrap types. They don't want or need to government. It's an interesting dynamic for a person who doesn't need help to never make the choice to move away from the dead end small town to give themselves more opportunities. Then they blame the government for their situation.

How can one not need the government and blame the government at the same time?
 
I just can't get over what people see in Trump. It's less about why she lost, but how could he win.

A convicted felon, serial sexual harrasser, insurrectionist/ traitor, multiple bankruptcies, multiple marriages w/ infidelity, narcissitic sociopath, said to be incompotent/ dangerous/ unfit by a majority of his previous cabinet.


There is not one redeeming quality about the man or even his presidency with the exception that there is a perception that "I" was better off during his term than Biden's. It is a reality I can't understand. There is no amount of debate about what went wrong for Democrats that will ever make sense or provide a path forward for them. As someone said on another thread, we'll have to wait until it all collaspses and have to pickup the pieces New Deal style again.
 
superrific said:
You have the causality wrong. Stop blaming the doctors when the inmates are running the asylum. Look at the UK. How did Brexit work out for them?

And I'm tried of this bullshit about how we are always supposed to be in touch with them. How about they get in touch with us? The relationship between liberals and conservatives is like intimate partner violence. They go on a rampage against us, and then we're supposed to go back and ask them how we can do better for them?

I have never thought that about a Trumper who is struggling. I have never failed to reach out and help. Those days are over.

Arrogance is people who don't know shit pretending that they do. The arrogance comes from them.
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Maybe that has elements of arrogance. But I see lots of ignorance and acceptance. So many just accept what they are told as fact. And this goes so far beyond politics.

I mean look around, we have real flat earthers, real cult members, anti vaxers, anti science, Qanon, conspiracy believers, etc.

This is why scamming is a billion dollar industry.

I consider myself very lucky and fortunate as I'm very average intelligence. I've had good help and guidance over the years and I'm skeptical enough to keep me out of the grasp of the charlatans who peddle the bullshit.
 
bassydude77 said:
I just can't get over what people see in Trump. It's less about why she lost, but how could he win.

A convicted felon, serial sexual harrasser, insurrectionist/ traitor, multiple bankruptcies, multiple marriages w/ infidelity, narcissitic sociopath, said to be incompotent/ dangerous/ unfit by a majority of his previous cabinet.


There is not one redeeming quality about the man or even his presidency with the exception that there is a perception that "I" was better off during his term than Biden's. It is a reality I can't understand. There is no amount of debate about what went wrong for Democrats that will ever make sense or provide a path forward for them. As someone said on another thread, we'll have to wait until it all collaspses and have to pickup the pieces New Deal style again.
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Completely agree.

Same here, I didn't see Kamala as perfect, but he was/is so damn bad.
 
He's Not Here said:
go back to 2012. If Romney wins, do we ever get Trump?
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Ding Ding Ding. Almost certainly not. But we wanted to elect the cool dude. Romney was a little odd, but had a track record of success. I voted enthusiastically for the Romney/Ryan ticket. The presidency is too much of a popularity contest. I wish it wasn't, but it has become that.
 
bassydude77 said:
I just can't get over what people see in Trump. It's less about why she lost, but how could he win.

A convicted felon, serial sexual harrasser, insurrectionist/ traitor, multiple bankruptcies, multiple marriages w/ infidelity, narcissitic sociopath, said to be incompotent/ dangerous/ unfit by a majority of his previous cabinet.


There is not one redeeming quality about the man or even his presidency with the exception that there is a perception that "I" was better off during his term than Biden's. It is a reality I can't understand. There is no amount of debate about what went wrong for Democrats that will ever make sense or provide a path forward for them. As someone said on another thread, we'll have to wait until it all collaspses and have to pickup the pieces New Deal style again.
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You are spot on. He leads a cult and we are a very sick nation. Until he dies or we heal ourselves, the downward spiral will continue.
 
LosPollosHermanos said:
Yeah before you paint 75 million Trump voters with that broad of a brush you might wanna consider the fact that Joe Biden got 81 million votes 4 years ago and Kamala is sitting at 67 or so now. That means many millions of those Trump voters this year weren't motivated by "racial, socioeconomic, gender-based hate and rage" just a few years ago. And this is exactly what I've been saying over and over here. If you call them all idiots, you can be damn sure none of them come back. But nobody wants to ask what the hell did we do wrong to lose 14 million voters either to apathy or to a makeup wearing phony? Some of you really need to consider the possibility that you're blinded by the same visceral vitriol that many of the people you criticize on the other side are. Common sense dictates that there is a way to get a lot of these people back but most of this board would rather throw the baby out with the bathwater than admit there's a massive disconnect going on here.
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There’s no disconnect. It’s not as complex as you’re trying to make it.

It’s not necessarily rural folks are “idiots”…it’s that they have bought into the propaganda they’ve been fed for over 4 decades.

Racism/sexism/bigotry/xenophobia + high prices at the grocery store, gas pump, and in the housing market are the drivers here.

Trumpism provides a scapegoat, a focus of blame for rural white folks (in particular) and rural citizens of all races. This is Trumpism in a nutshell:

“The immigrants are taking your jobs. The immigrants are causing your rent to go up. The immigrants are taking over your rural communities and murdering and raping your beautiful white wives and daughters.

And the Dems are standing by and letting it happen. They care more about paying for transgender surgeries for prisoners and they’re changing the gender of your kids while they’re at school. And they want to kill angelic little babies via post-term abortions!”

And rural people buy into it, because they need/want to blame someone for the fact that their communities have died off and their manufacturing jobs have been shipped overseas.

Dems are at an obvious and enormous disadvantage when trying to combat that messaging and “reach out to” rural voters.

The Dem message since at least Obama has been one of hope and equality for all races, genders, sexualities. To provide policies that help all people. To understand that immigrants—including undocumented immigrants—are part of our fabric and are contributors to our economy. To provide a way forward for educational and occupational opportunities for those in rural/depressed communities.

The Dem message doesn’t provide for an easy scapegoat. It doesn’t tap into the fear and rage receptors in the human brain, which MAGA/Trumpism does exquisitely well.
 
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I heard a couple of co workers talking yesterday that they have never felt more patriotic than they do today. I ask them what made them feel more patriotic today than yesterday and one of them told me that now that Trump was president again we could get back to having morality again. I simply laughed and walked away.
 
EhringhausSouth said:
Ding Ding Ding. Almost certainly not. But we wanted to elect the cool dude. Romney was a little odd, but had a track record of success. I voted enthusiastically for the Romney/Ryan ticket. The presidency is too much of a popularity contest. I wish it wasn't, but it has become that.
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That is the question of the 21st Century - but for Obama, do we ever get Trump?
 
UNCMSinLS said:
That is the question of the 21st Century - but for Obama, do we ever get Trump?
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IOW, when did we want an economic downturn? The Republicans are so against big government ,they can't govern. Point out the last Republican president to actually be good for the economy. Eisenhower, maybe? He had a war torn world to compete against.
 
Honestly, I'm still processing. I know I'll be back in the fight fighting the good fight come hell or high water, but I personally feel like I need more than a day to process what this means and how to be most effective for what comes next.
 
EhringhausSouth said:
Ding Ding Ding. Almost certainly not. But we wanted to elect the cool dude. Romney was a little odd, but had a track record of success. I voted enthusiastically for the Romney/Ryan ticket. The presidency is too much of a popularity contest. I wish it wasn't, but it has become that.
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The cool dude, as you describe him, was a pretty damn good president. I say that as a Romney voter. America did the right thing returning Obama to the White House.
 
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