Where do we go from here?

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EhringhausSouth said:
Ding Ding Ding. Almost certainly not. But we wanted to elect the cool dude. Romney was a little odd, but had a track record of success. I voted enthusiastically for the Romney/Ryan ticket. The presidency is too much of a popularity contest. I wish it wasn't, but it has become that.
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Obama wasn’t elected in 2012 because he was “cool” he was elected in 2012 because he successfully led us out of recession despite constant Republican obstruction that was specifically designed to slow recovery and defeat his agenda.
 
rodoheel said:
Obama wasn’t elected in 2012 because he was “cool” he was elected in 2012 because he successfully led us out of recession despite constant Republican obstruction that was specifically designed to slow recovery and defeat his agenda.
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Oh, compared to Trump & Biden, yes, but that isn't hard to do.
 
rodoheel said:
Obama wasn’t elected in 2012 because he was “cool” he was elected in 2012 because he successfully led us out of recession despite constant Republican obstruction that was specifically designed to slow recovery and defeat his agenda.
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Yep, incumbents get reelected unless they jack things up pretty clearly. Trump would’ve clearly been reelected in 2020 if he wasn’t mangling the COVID crisis so badly.
 
bassydude77 said:
I just can't get over what people see in Trump. It's less about why she lost, but how could he win.

A convicted felon, serial sexual harrasser, insurrectionist/ traitor, multiple bankruptcies, multiple marriages w/ infidelity, narcissitic sociopath, said to be incompotent/ dangerous/ unfit by a majority of his previous cabinet.


There is not one redeeming quality about the man or even his presidency with the exception that there is a perception that "I" was better off during his term than Biden's. It is a reality I can't understand. There is no amount of debate about what went wrong for Democrats that will ever make sense or provide a path forward for them. As someone said on another thread, we'll have to wait until it all collaspses and have to pickup the pieces New Deal style again.
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In my view, it boils down to the average person caring primarily about their own financial situation and being susceptible to snake oil sales tactics.

Trump is a despicable person and seems relatively unintelligent, but he is also a shrewd political salesman and recognizes the basic financial pain points that the average working class American is feeling. Even though he is vague on the details of how he is going to actually solve those things (purposefully so, because he doesn’t have any intention in doing that), he still constantly presses on those same basic pain points over and over again mixed with the right amount of racist and misogynist dog whistle rhetoric, until his messaging resonates with a majority of the electorate.

Contrast that with Kamala. By all accounts she seems like a decent person as far as politicians go, and is intelligent and as qualified on paper as anyone to be president. Unfortunately, her personality when she campaigns, makes speeches, debates, etc, comes across to a lot of people as corny, out of touch, and inauthentic. Would that really make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things in terms of how she would perform as president? I don’t think so. We’re talking about how to win an election though, and those type of personality traits matter a lot.

All of this stuff keeps bringing me back to Bernie Sanders. Throw out his specific policies for argument’s sake. When he was in the spotlight during previous campaign cycles, he seemed earnest in a genuine way, he understood the pain points of the average American, and he was concise and consistent with his messaging about he was going to solve those things. I think the Democratic Party desperately needs someone with that sort of personality to step up or they will assuredly keep getting pantsed in these elections.
 
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rodoheel said:
Obama wasn’t elected in 2012 because he was “cool” he was elected in 2012 because he successfully led us out of recession despite constant Republican obstruction that was specifically designed to slow recovery and defeat his agenda.
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Funny how his first term mirrors Biden's.
 
EhringhausSouth said:
Nope. I don't think so. Trump is a reaction to an Obama 2 term presidency
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I disagree--to cobble together his white rural base, Trump required the implosion of the Republican party under GWB and the New Democrat deregulatory efforts of the 1990s.
 
Peppers49 said:
In my view, it boils down to the average person caring primarily about their own financial situation and being susceptible to snake oil sales tactics.

Trump is a despicable person and seems relatively unintelligent, but he is also a shrewd political salesman and recognizes the basic financial pain points that the average working class American is feeling. Even though he is vague on the details of how he is going to actually solve those things (purposefully so, because he doesn’t have any intention in doing that), he still constantly presses on those same basic pain points over and over again mixed with the right amount of racist and misogynist dog whistle rhetoric, until his messaging resonates with a majority of the electorate.

Contrast that with Kamala. By all accounts she seems like a decent person as far as politicians go, and is intelligent and as qualified on paper as anyone to be president. Unfortunately, her personality when she campaigns, makes speeches, debates, etc, comes across to a lot of people as corny, out of touch, and inauthentic. Would that really make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things in terms of how she would perform as president? I don’t think so. We’re talking about how to win an election though, and those type of personality traits matter a lot.

All of this stuff keeps bringing me back to Bernie Sanders. Throw out his specific policies for argument’s sake. When he was in the spotlight during previous campaign cycles, he seemed earnest in a genuine way, he understood the pain points of the average American, and he was concise and consistent with his messaging about he was going to solve those things. I think the Democratic Party desperately needs someone with that sort of personality to step up or they will assuredly keep getting pantsed in these elections.
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This.

Not Bernie's policies specifically, but his attitude and perceived authenticity goes a very long way. Make a movement and people will vote for that movement, but you need the right kind of politician to break through. Obama did, Bernie did, and Trump did.

Be concise and ram that message home in every. single. speech. You aren't trying to appeal to this board, you are trying to appeal to the people that tune in once every 4 or if really pissed off 2 years.
 
breepf said:
I disagree--to cobble together his white rural base, Trump required the implosion of the Republican party under GWB and the New Democrat deregulatory efforts of the 1990s.
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We just witnessed the most brutally, explicitly racist and hate-filled political campaign since the 19th century from a party that has been running on demonizing dark skinned foreigners for a decade.

And somehow, in all of the post-mortems, I'm the only one mentioning race. I mean, did you even watch what was happening?

I thought we had learned that "economic anxiety" is nothing but code for racism. You know, the way it has always been. Even during Jim Crow, politicians didn't message, "we need to keep the n**** down" as much as "look at how these n****" are hurting our way of life." Look, they move into our neighborhoods and our house prices will drop. Look, they use drugs and cause crime. It's not that we hate the black people, they can't help themselves, it's just that they do all these bad things to us and we have to protect ourselves.

And right behind that was sexism, again as usual. What did Trump mean when he said Kamala can't be strong because, you know? We saw and read interviews with people (mostly men) wondering if a woman is too emotional to run the country, to be commander in chief, etc. etc.

But sure, it's the fault of the New Democrats in the 1990s. It was those feckless policies that caused the southern states to become a solid bloc in favor of the party hostile to minority rights. Because that had never happened before. Only the New Democrats caused the South to slip away, and it would have stayed blue forever if only we had not gutted union rights in those states. Oh, what's that? Those states have been "right to work" for decades? Well, it was still the fault of New Democrats. What's that? Those southern states started flipping to the GOP immediately after and clearly as a result of the Civil Rights movement, and the process has continued apace? Well, never mind. It was the New Democrats fault.
 
rodoheel said:
Obama wasn’t elected in 2012 because he was “cool” he was elected in 2012 because he successfully led us out of recession despite constant Republican obstruction that was specifically designed to slow recovery and defeat his agenda.
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He also held on by narrowly winning blue wall states against an opponent who was thoroughly hated by blue wall state residents on account of said opponent having stolen millions of pensions.

The financial crisis was still in people's minds and Romney came from the class of people who created it.
 
GoHeelsweeeehoooo said:
So who is the leader of the Democratic party now? Hakeem Jefferies ?
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IMO mostly. And that's a good thing. But it's also OK not to have a set leader.

To be honest, I want to see our next pres candidate go to the field and stuff NOT wearing suits. Dont act stuffy. Be a person
 
superrific said:
And then the GOP won back the House in the very next election. They didn't get showed. Obama's steady leadership saved us, and then they went back to their old bullshit.
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Which is why we might just have to let Trump burn it all down (within reason).

MAGA is a cancer and most cancers aren't cured without a significant amount of suffering.
 
superrific said:
We just witnessed the most brutally, explicitly racist and hate-filled political campaign since the 19th century from a party that has been running on demonizing dark skinned foreigners for a decade.

And somehow, in all of the post-mortems, I'm the only one mentioning race. I mean, did you even watch what was happening?

I thought we had learned that "economic anxiety" is nothing but code for racism. You know, the way it has always been. Even during Jim Crow, politicians didn't message, "we need to keep the n**** down" as much as "look at how these n****" are hurting our way of life." Look, they move into our neighborhoods and our house prices will drop. Look, they use drugs and cause crime. It's not that we hate the black people, they can't help themselves, it's just that they do all these bad things to us and we have to protect ourselves.

And right behind that was sexism, again as usual. What did Trump mean when he said Kamala can't be strong because, you know? We saw and read interviews with people (mostly men) wondering if a woman is too emotional to run the country, to be commander in chief, etc. etc.

But sure, it's the fault of the New Democrats in the 1990s. It was those feckless policies that caused the southern states to become a solid bloc in favor of the party hostile to minority rights. Because that had never happened before. Only the New Democrats caused the South to slip away, and it would have stayed blue forever if only we had not gutted union rights in those states. Oh, what's that? Those states have been "right to work" for decades? Well, it was still the fault of New Democrats. What's that? Those southern states started flipping to the GOP immediately after and clearly as a result of the Civil Rights movement, and the process has continued apace? Well, never mind. It was the New Democrats fault.
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Trump got 46% of the Hispanic vote, bro.
 
superrific said:
We just witnessed the most brutally, explicitly racist and hate-filled political campaign since the 19th century from a party that has been running on demonizing dark skinned foreigners for a decade.

And somehow, in all of the post-mortems, I'm the only one mentioning race. I mean, did you even watch what was happening?

I thought we had learned that "economic anxiety" is nothing but code for racism. You know, the way it has always been. Even during Jim Crow, politicians didn't message, "we need to keep the n**** down" as much as "look at how these n****" are hurting our way of life." Look, they move into our neighborhoods and our house prices will drop. Look, they use drugs and cause crime. It's not that we hate the black people, they can't help themselves, it's just that they do all these bad things to us and we have to protect ourselves.

And right behind that was sexism, again as usual. What did Trump mean when he said Kamala can't be strong because, you know? We saw and read interviews with people (mostly men) wondering if a woman is too emotional to run the country, to be commander in chief, etc. etc.

But sure, it's the fault of the New Democrats in the 1990s. It was those feckless policies that caused the southern states to become a solid bloc in favor of the party hostile to minority rights. Because that had never happened before. Only the New Democrats caused the South to slip away, and it would have stayed blue forever if only we had not gutted union rights in those states. Oh, what's that? Those states have been "right to work" for decades? Well, it was still the fault of New Democrats. What's that? Those southern states started flipping to the GOP immediately after and clearly as a result of the Civil Rights movement, and the process has continued apace? Well, never mind. It was the New Democrats fault.
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Your post just doesn’t match reality. Harris performed better than Biden with white males, and worse with suburban women, Latinos and Blacks. If this is racism and sexism, the votes don’t show it.
 
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