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Where do we go from here?

  • Thread starter Thread starter rodoheel
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  • Politics 
Paine said:
Who was advising Gallego? Might want to look into some of his people.
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We have to stop lionizing people who win races that would be hard to lose. I agree that Gallego is a great guy and I like him a lot. But he was also running against Kari Lake. It's like when people build up Whitmer and Shapiro as amazing politicians because they swept to victory over pathetic opponents. Does Josh Stein's landslide mean that he's a brilliant candidate who can win everywhere, or was it his opponent?

Clare McCaskill won a Senate race in 2012 that she had no business winning given that Missouri had long been on its descent into MAGA hell. It didn't make her amazing. It was that she was running against a guy who talked about "legitimate rape." (Incidentally, one wonders if he would win in this environment). She lost in 2018 in a Dem wave year and it wasn't close. I like Clare. It's not her fault. I'm just saying, beating terrible candidates is like beating up on a DII basketball team. It doesn't necessarily predict success in March Madness.
 
superrific said:
We have to stop lionizing people who win races that would be hard to lose. I agree that Gallego is a great guy and I like him a lot. But he was also running against Kari Lake. It's like when people build up Whitmer and Shapiro as amazing politicians because they swept to victory over pathetic opponents. Does Josh Stein's landslide mean that he's a brilliant candidate who can win everywhere, or was it his opponent?

Clare McCaskill won a Senate race in 2012 that she had no business winning given that Missouri had long been on its descent into MAGA hell. It didn't make her amazing. It was that she was running against a guy who talked about "legitimate rape." (Incidentally, one wonders if he would win in this environment). She lost in 2018 in a Dem wave year and it wasn't close. I like Clare. It's not her fault. I'm just saying, beating terrible candidates is like beating up on a DII basketball team. It doesn't necessarily predict success in March Madness.
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Todd Akin would win by 10-15 pts now
 
superrific said:
We have to stop lionizing people who win races that would be hard to lose. I agree that Gallego is a great guy and I like him a lot. But he was also running against Kari Lake. It's like when people build up Whitmer and Shapiro as amazing politicians because they swept to victory over pathetic opponents. Does Josh Stein's landslide mean that he's a brilliant candidate who can win everywhere, or was it his opponent?

Clare McCaskill won a Senate race in 2012 that she had no business winning given that Missouri had long been on its descent into MAGA hell. It didn't make her amazing. It was that she was running against a guy who talked about "legitimate rape." (Incidentally, one wonders if he would win in this environment). She lost in 2018 in a Dem wave year and it wasn't close. I like Clare. It's not her fault. I'm just saying, beating terrible candidates is like beating up on a DII basketball team. It doesn't necessarily predict success in March Madness.
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Gallego did well with Latinos in a cycle where Dems lost a ton of support from them overall. I’m not lionizing him, but I think it’s also silly to say he only won because Lake was a bad candidate.

Lately the Democrats have been obsessed with DNC chairs who didn’t even win their own elections.
 
Calheel said:
Missouri is no more Republican than Alabama, and Doug Jones won against an awful candidate. It would not be a slam dunk.
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Roy moore was much worse, was accused of sexual assault, and barely lost an off year special election in a very democrat favored environment in the immediate aftermath of Charlottesville against a prominent civil rights attorney
 
I don't know if this adds much -- but. on the issue of not alienating working-class (especially white) people, it is obvious that Democrats have much work to do. But, I grow weary of the scolding Democrats receive about being out of touch, not respecting working-class folks, etc.

I live in Spartanburg, SC -- Donald Trump literally said that German automobile factory workers' jobs could be done by children. He said that about thousands of workers here in my home county. He said it about the crown jewel of Upstate, SC's economy. I doubt it cost him more than 100 votes here. I doubt it cost him more than 10 votes among the very workers he insulted.

It's just incredible. I don't know how to work with that.
 
superrific said:
Bro, the "hispanic" vote consists of lots of people who also identify as white. The hispanic vote is not monolithic, as people come from many different places for different reasons at different times. And many of those countries also feature profound racism against darker skinned people. Read something about it. Here, I'll give you a starter

en.wikipedia.org

Racism in Venezuela - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org

Race and ethnicity in Latin America - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
www.paho.org

Afro-descendants in Latin American countries live in starkly unequal conditions that impact health and well-being, PAHO study shows

Inequities for Afro-descendants include higher rates of maternal mortality and lack of access to education, jobs, adequate housing, and basic services such as safe water and sanitation. Washington, D.C. December 3, 2021 (PAHO) – A new study of Afro-descendant populations in 18 Latin American...
www.paho.org www.paho.org
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Welp, I guess Trump won over just the racist Hispanics.
 
ole howard1 said:
I don't know if this adds much -- but. on the issue of not alienating working-class (especially white) people, it is obvious that Democrats have much work to do. But, I grow weary of the scolding Democrats receive about being out of touch, not respecting working-class folks, etc.

I live in Spartanburg, SC -- Donald Trump literally said that German automobile factory workers' jobs could be done by children. He said that about thousands of workers here in my home county. He said it about the crown jewel of Upstate, SC's economy. I doubt it cost him more than 100 votes here. I doubt it cost him more than 10 votes among the very workers he insulted.

It's just incredible. I don't know how to work with that.
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You can't.
 
ole howard1 said:
I don't know if this adds much -- but. on the issue of not alienating working-class (especially white) people, it is obvious that Democrats have much work to do. But, I grow weary of the scolding Democrats receive about being out of touch, not respecting working-class folks, etc.

I live in Spartanburg, SC -- Donald Trump literally said that German automobile factory workers' jobs could be done by children. He said that about thousands of workers here in my home county. He said it about the crown jewel of Upstate, SC's economy. I doubt it cost him more than 100 votes here. I doubt it cost him more than 10 votes among the very workers he insulted.

It's just incredible. I don't know how to work with that.
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You cant. But as the video said, stop with the trying to parse everything. We dont have to win working class white voters. But if we shave just 10 points off those losses, so we lose counties 60-40 instead of 65-35 (or more) then suddenly the game has absolutely changed.

I mean this was as red wavey as we have seen in a decade. And even with that, it's not like Trump just steamrolled...and it's not like the senate and house will be a bloodletting
 
farce© said:
Bernie can register as a Democrat to run for President the same way I registered as a Republican to vote in the Republican primary in Ohio in 2016. Bernie is not and never has been a dues-paying member of the Democratic Party. They are never and were never going to nominate him.
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So you’re saying you endorse the idea of rigging a primary against its strongest candidate if they aren’t 100% aligned with the party at all times? Interesting.

Older Fox News-watching boomer types probably all hate Bernie and believe the socialism thing, but I bet if you polled the younger Trump voters (like the ones who watch Rogan - who endorsed him in 2016), they would poll favorably towards him. He was the antidote to Trump in 2016. The problem wasn’t that he isn’t a “true democrat”. It was that Wall Street and big money politics didn’t want a guy who would ACTUALLY change things in favor of the average struggling American (who now flock to Trump, who doesn’t give AF about them).

I don’t know where we go from here. MSM is basically dead in the water if the Trump team decides to ban big pharma advertising, because nobody watches it anymore.
 
Paine said:
Gallego did well with Latinos in a cycle where Dems lost a ton of support from them overall. I’m not lionizing him, but I think it’s also silly to say he only won because Lake was a bad candidate.

Lately the Democrats have been obsessed with DNC chairs who didn’t even win their own elections.
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Well, Gallego is also Latino. But really, I'm not saying that he only won because Lake was a bad candidate. I'm saying that it's hard to estimate how good he is because he wasn't tested. That's all.

What would you like aspiring Dems from red states to do? Should we tell Jamie Harrison to fuck off because he couldn't win as a black Democrat in South Carolina? There aren't enough Secretary of Transportation jobs for all of them, and we don't even control the WH anyway.

I have no real opinion about this issue, because I don't even really understand exactly what the DNC chair does, how much power s/he has, what are the priorities, etc. I just don't think "he lost that election, so he sucks" is the right approach. Are we going to say that about Beto also?
 
superrific said:
Well, Gallego is also Latino. But really, I'm not saying that he only won because Lake was a bad candidate. I'm saying that it's hard to estimate how good he is because he wasn't tested. That's all.

What would you like aspiring Dems from red states to do? Should we tell Jamie Harrison to fuck off because he couldn't win as a black Democrat in South Carolina? There aren't enough Secretary of Transportation jobs for all of them, and we don't even control the WH anyway.

I have no real opinion about this issue, because I don't even really understand exactly what the DNC chair does, how much power s/he has, what are the priorities, etc. I just don't think "he lost that election, so he sucks" is the right approach. Are we going to say that about Beto also?
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Harrison has already said he won’t run again for DNC chair, so your point is moot.
 
Illithor said:
So you’re saying you endorse the idea of rigging a primary against its strongest candidate if they aren’t 100% aligned with the party at all times? Interesting.

Older Fox News-watching boomer types probably all hate Bernie and believe the socialism thing, but I bet if you polled the younger Trump voters (like the ones who watch Rogan - who endorsed him in 2016), they would poll favorably towards him. He was the antidote to Trump in 2016. The problem wasn’t that he isn’t a “true democrat”. It was that Wall Street and big money politics didn’t want a guy who would ACTUALLY change things in favor of the average struggling American (who now flock to Trump, who doesn’t give AF about them).

I don’t know where we go from here. MSM is basically dead in the water if the Trump team decides to ban big pharma advertising, because nobody watches it anymore.
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Again, again, again. You cannot build a political movement on a base that does not vote. Younger voters don't vote. Seniors do. How young people think is just not of paramount importance -- or all that much importance at all -- in the short term. Longer term, yes.
 
Illithor said:
So you’re saying you endorse the idea of rigging a primary against its strongest candidate if they aren’t 100% aligned with the party at all times? Interesting.

Older Fox News-watching boomer types probably all hate Bernie and believe the socialism thing, but I bet if you polled the younger Trump voters (like the ones who watch Rogan - who endorsed him in 2016), they would poll favorably towards him. He was the antidote to Trump in 2016. The problem wasn’t that he isn’t a “true democrat”. It was that Wall Street and big money politics didn’t want a guy who would ACTUALLY change things in favor of the average struggling American (who now flock to Trump, who doesn’t give AF about them).

I don’t know where we go from here. MSM is basically dead in the water if the Trump team decides to ban big pharma advertising, because nobody watches it anymore.
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If he couldn't make headway against the warm breeze of a Democratic primary, how in the hell do you think he would do against the heat from the Trump campaign? How anyone could think he should be anointed when he can't muster the power base to win it is beyond me. That's a huge part of campaigning, no matter how tawdry it might seem.

Btw, I never took an interest but what is behind your claim that the primary was rigged in short form? You have me curious. I still believe the above is right from a purely pragmatic POV.
 
dukeman92 said:
You can't.
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and that is why all we can do is sit and wait for the GOP to break everything. It's not a great strategy for a nation.

Have one party with a base that begs to be insulted and lied to, and another party that can only sniff office when they have to fix things, then immediately get kicked out so the other party can break shit again.
 
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