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lawtig02
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Lot of good there, but I have to admit, whenever I see someone say we have to get prices down, I immediately knock them down a few pegs on the credibility list.
CFordUNC
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Yeah, that’s totally fair. I probably do too.
ZenMode
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I normally wouldn't post entire articles from behind a paywall, but Mika Brzezinski read the entire thing on-air...
Democrats and the Case of Mistaken Identity Politics
Nov. 9, 2024
Some Democrats are finally waking up and realizing that woke is broke.
Donald Trump won a majority of white women and remarkable numbers of Black and Latino voters and young men.
Democratic insiders thought people would vote for Kamala Harris, even if they didn’t like her, to get rid of Trump. But more people ended up voting for Trump, even though many didn’t like him, because they liked the Democratic Party less.
I have often talked about how my dad stayed up all night on the night Harry Truman was elected because he was so excited. And my brother stayed up all night the first time Trump was elected because he was so excited. And I felt that Democrats would never recover that kind of excitement until they could figure out why they had turned off so many working-class voters over the decades, and why they had developed such disdain toward their once loyal base.
Democratic candidates have often been avatars of elitism — Michael Dukakis, Al Gore, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton and second-term Barack Obama. The party embraced a worldview of hyper-political correctness, condescension and cancellation, and it supported diversity statements for job applicants and faculty lounge terminology like “Latinx,” and “BIPOC” (Black, Indigenous, People of Color).
This alienated half the country, or more. And the chaos and antisemitism at many college campuses certainly didn’t help.
“When the woke police come at you,” Rahm Emanuel told me, “you don’t even get your Miranda rights read to you.”
There were a lot of Democrats “barking,” people who “don’t represent anybody,” he said, and “the leadership of the party was intimidated.”
Donald Trump played to the irritation of many Americans disgusted at being regarded as insensitive for talking the way they’d always talked. At rallies, he referred to women as “beautiful” and then pretended to admonish himself, saying he’d get in trouble for using that word. He’d also call women “darling” and joke that he had to be careful because his political career could be at risk.
One thing that makes Democrats great is that they unabashedly support groups that have suffered from inequality. But they have to begin avoiding extreme policies that alienate many Americans who would otherwise be drawn to the party.
Democrats learned the hard way in this election that mothers care both about abortion rights and having their daughters compete fairly and safely on the playing field.
A revealing chart that ran in The Financial Times showed that white progressives hold views far to the left of the minorities they champion. White progressives think at higher rates than Hispanic and Black Americans that “racism is built into our society.” Many more Black and Hispanic Americans surveyed, compared with white progressives, responded that “America is the greatest country in the world.”
Gobsmacked Democrats have reacted to the wipeout in different ways. Some think Kamala did not court the left enough, touting trans rights and repudiating Israel.
Other Democrats feel the opposite, calling on the party to reimagine itself.
Marie Gluesenkamp Perez, a vulnerable Democrat in a red congressional district in Washington, narrowly held her seat. The 36-year-old mother of a toddler and owner of an auto shop told The Times’s Annie Karni that Democratic condescension has to go. “There’s not one weird trick that’s going to fix the Democratic Party,” she said. “It is going to take parents of young kids, people in rural communities, people in the trades running for office and being taken seriously.”
Representative Seth Moulton, a Massachusetts Democrat, said the party needs rebranding. “Democrats spend way too much time trying not to offend anyone,” he said. “I have two little girls. I don’t want them getting run over on a playing field by a male or formerly male athlete, but as a Democrat I’m supposed to be afraid to say that.”
On CNN, the Democratic strategist Julie Roginsky said that Democrats did not know how to talk to normal Americans.
Addressing Latinos as “Latinx” to be politically correct “makes them think that we don’t even live on the same planet as they do,” she said. “When we are too afraid to say that ‘Hey, college kids, if you’re trashing a campus of Columbia University because you aren’t happy about some sort of policy and you’re taking over a university and you’re trashing it and preventing other students from learning, that that is unacceptable.’ But we’re so worried about alienating one or another cohort in our coalition that we don’t know what to say.”
Kamala, a Democratic lawmaker told me, made the “colossal mistake” of running a billion-dollar campaign with celebrities like Beyoncé when many of the struggling working-class voters she wanted couldn’t even afford a ticket to a Beyoncé concert, much less a down payment on a home.
“I don’t think the average person said, ‘Kamala Harris gets what I’m going through,’” this Democrat said.
Kamala, who sprinted to the left in her 2020 Democratic primary campaign, tried to move toward the center for this election, making sure to say she’d shoot an intruder with her Glock. But it sounded tinny.
The Trump campaign’s most successful ad showed Kamala favoring tax-funded gender surgery for prisoners. Bill Clinton warned in vain that she should rebut it.
James Carville gave Kamala credit for not leaning into her gender and ethnicity. But he said the party had become enamored of “identitarianism” — a word he uses because he won’t say “woke” — radiating the repellent idea that “identity is more important than humanity.”
“We could never wash off the stench of it,” he said, calling “defund the police” “the three stupidest words in the English language.”
“It’s like when you get smoke on your clothes and you have to wash them again and again. Now people are running away from it like the devil runs away from holy water.”
www.nytimes.com
Democrats and the Case of Mistaken Identity Politics
Nov. 9, 2024
Some Democrats are finally waking up and realizing that woke is broke.
Donald Trump won a majority of white women and remarkable numbers of Black and Latino voters and young men.
Democratic insiders thought people would vote for Kamala Harris, even if they didn’t like her, to get rid of Trump. But more people ended up voting for Trump, even though many didn’t like him, because they liked the Democratic Party less.
I have often talked about how my dad stayed up all night on the night Harry Truman was elected because he was so excited. And my brother stayed up all night the first time Trump was elected because he was so excited. And I felt that Democrats would never recover that kind of excitement until they could figure out why they had turned off so many working-class voters over the decades, and why they had developed such disdain toward their once loyal base.
Democratic candidates have often been avatars of elitism — Michael Dukakis, Al Gore, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton and second-term Barack Obama. The party embraced a worldview of hyper-political correctness, condescension and cancellation, and it supported diversity statements for job applicants and faculty lounge terminology like “Latinx,” and “BIPOC” (Black, Indigenous, People of Color).
This alienated half the country, or more. And the chaos and antisemitism at many college campuses certainly didn’t help.
“When the woke police come at you,” Rahm Emanuel told me, “you don’t even get your Miranda rights read to you.”
There were a lot of Democrats “barking,” people who “don’t represent anybody,” he said, and “the leadership of the party was intimidated.”
Donald Trump played to the irritation of many Americans disgusted at being regarded as insensitive for talking the way they’d always talked. At rallies, he referred to women as “beautiful” and then pretended to admonish himself, saying he’d get in trouble for using that word. He’d also call women “darling” and joke that he had to be careful because his political career could be at risk.
One thing that makes Democrats great is that they unabashedly support groups that have suffered from inequality. But they have to begin avoiding extreme policies that alienate many Americans who would otherwise be drawn to the party.
Democrats learned the hard way in this election that mothers care both about abortion rights and having their daughters compete fairly and safely on the playing field.
A revealing chart that ran in The Financial Times showed that white progressives hold views far to the left of the minorities they champion. White progressives think at higher rates than Hispanic and Black Americans that “racism is built into our society.” Many more Black and Hispanic Americans surveyed, compared with white progressives, responded that “America is the greatest country in the world.”
Gobsmacked Democrats have reacted to the wipeout in different ways. Some think Kamala did not court the left enough, touting trans rights and repudiating Israel.
Other Democrats feel the opposite, calling on the party to reimagine itself.
Marie Gluesenkamp Perez, a vulnerable Democrat in a red congressional district in Washington, narrowly held her seat. The 36-year-old mother of a toddler and owner of an auto shop told The Times’s Annie Karni that Democratic condescension has to go. “There’s not one weird trick that’s going to fix the Democratic Party,” she said. “It is going to take parents of young kids, people in rural communities, people in the trades running for office and being taken seriously.”
Representative Seth Moulton, a Massachusetts Democrat, said the party needs rebranding. “Democrats spend way too much time trying not to offend anyone,” he said. “I have two little girls. I don’t want them getting run over on a playing field by a male or formerly male athlete, but as a Democrat I’m supposed to be afraid to say that.”
On CNN, the Democratic strategist Julie Roginsky said that Democrats did not know how to talk to normal Americans.
Addressing Latinos as “Latinx” to be politically correct “makes them think that we don’t even live on the same planet as they do,” she said. “When we are too afraid to say that ‘Hey, college kids, if you’re trashing a campus of Columbia University because you aren’t happy about some sort of policy and you’re taking over a university and you’re trashing it and preventing other students from learning, that that is unacceptable.’ But we’re so worried about alienating one or another cohort in our coalition that we don’t know what to say.”
Kamala, a Democratic lawmaker told me, made the “colossal mistake” of running a billion-dollar campaign with celebrities like Beyoncé when many of the struggling working-class voters she wanted couldn’t even afford a ticket to a Beyoncé concert, much less a down payment on a home.
“I don’t think the average person said, ‘Kamala Harris gets what I’m going through,’” this Democrat said.
Kamala, who sprinted to the left in her 2020 Democratic primary campaign, tried to move toward the center for this election, making sure to say she’d shoot an intruder with her Glock. But it sounded tinny.
The Trump campaign’s most successful ad showed Kamala favoring tax-funded gender surgery for prisoners. Bill Clinton warned in vain that she should rebut it.
James Carville gave Kamala credit for not leaning into her gender and ethnicity. But he said the party had become enamored of “identitarianism” — a word he uses because he won’t say “woke” — radiating the repellent idea that “identity is more important than humanity.”
“We could never wash off the stench of it,” he said, calling “defund the police” “the three stupidest words in the English language.”
“It’s like when you get smoke on your clothes and you have to wash them again and again. Now people are running away from it like the devil runs away from holy water.”
Opinion | Democrats and the Case of Mistaken Identity Politics
The post mortem is a wake for woke.
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All things considered, do you believe the average voter considers executive orders?
I think the party has to look at how they present their ideas better, but it's hard to overcome low information and single issue voters.
ZenMode
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I doubt most voters take note of EOs, but things like that are brought up during election season. I think people are more likely to notice that Biden took 2+ years to take any action on the border because stand-alone EOs are likely to make the news.
I can make a pretty decent guess on why he took so long.
rodoheel
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As depressing as it is, this short paragraph probably the most important:Thought this was a really good and really important read and wanted to share it here.
There Are No Permanent Defeats
"A loss, however painful, is not the end of the world. Every election result is provisional. There are multiple examples in recent memory of the American electorate delivering victories to a party and then swiftly reversing course.
This is not to minimize the seriousness of the mistake voters have made this year, just to keep some perspective. There are many turns of the wheel.
The Democrats will do themselves some good if this loss causes them to reconsider their boutique views on immigration, public safety, trans athletes, and other matters. But the thumping rightward shift in the electorate between 2020 and 2024 suggests to me that this election really came down (mostly) to inflation, with a side of immigration, rather than an embrace of Trump or Trumpism.
Most voters decide based upon their own financial condition. This year, 68 percent of voters rated the economy as “not so good” or “poor.” Yes, the other economic indicators were great, but 75 percent said inflation had inflicted moderate or severe hardship on them. All of the stock market gains, employment, and economic growth in the world cannot compensate for that. Compared with Joe Biden in 2020, Kamala Harris lost ground with nearly every demographic—urban, suburban, rural, you name it. Even among women voters, Harris did worse than Biden, with the exceptions of urban women, senior women, and those with a college degree.
It’s impossible to gauge how big a part racism and sexism played in Harris’s performance—few will admit such motivations. Harris performed a bit worse with Hispanic women than Biden did. Was that closet sexism? Doubtful. Nor does it seem plausible that so many young women who voted for Biden switched to Trump out of misogyny. Fully 45 percent of the electorate said they were financially worse off today than four years ago, which is a greater percentage than any year since the 2008 Great Recession. Only 26 percent of voters were satisfied or enthusiastic about how things are going in the country, whereas 43 percent were dissatisfied and 29 percent were angry.
For all the attention paid to white voters’ affection for Trump, their approval of Trump has declined from 57 percent in 2020 to 49 percent in 2024. And while much is being made, justifiably, about the big swing toward Trump among Hispanics, he remains unpopular among them. Only 42 percent of Latinos have a favorable view of Trump.
This underscores the importance of people’s personal financial condition. They will hire a creep if they think he’ll improve their personal prospects. Most voters neither understand nor particularly care about the rule of law or foreign policy (beyond war and peace).
Much will change before the next election—and yes, there will be more elections. The winning party will nearly always over-interpret its mandate and go too far, prompting a backlash at the polls. The president’s party typically loses seats in off year elections, so expect a rebuke in 2026. (One of the most dangerous depredations of Trump 1.0 was undermining faith in elections and attempting to subvert the 2020 outcome, so Democrats must be prepared to fight tooth and nail over interference with any election going forward.)
Democrats cannot just wait for the election cycle to solve their problems. There are a number of lessons they should take to heart from this year’s results: 1) the abortion issue has likely run its course as a motivator in national elections (though it remains potent statewide); 2) Hispanic voters cannot be taken for granted as part of the Democratic coalition; 3) woke postures like taxpayer-funded sex change operations for incarcerated immigrants are toxic; and 4) big federal spending programs don’t deliver immediate political dividends.
Much has been said and written about matters 1 through 3, so let me address 4. Of all people, Joe Biden should have understood that passing big bills like the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act and the Inflation Reduction Act would not be noticed by voters in time for 2024. He was vice president when the Affordable Care Act passed and witnessed that not only was Obama not rewarded for it, Democrats lost the House in 2010.
Only much later, after it had been fully implemented and people began to enjoy the benefits (and Republicans failed to come up with an alternative), did the program become popular. Both the IRA and the infrastructure bill, ironically, contain lavish spending for rural and Trump-friendly parts of the country that will begin to come online just in time for Trump to take credit for them. The legislation may or may not have been good policy, but it’s important for Democrats to recognize that passing big bills doesn’t translate into votes—at least not right away.
The Democratic party has suffered a setback, not a wipeout. The country remains closely divided. Democrats still hold nearly half the seats in the Senate and (depending on the races still outstanding) nearly half of the House. Twenty-three states have Democratic governors. Democratic office holders need to gird their loins for the avalanche of lies, scandals, outrages, and betrayals that a second Trump term is sure to deliver. They must prepare to educate voters about the consequences of Trump’s tariffs (which are taxes), deportations, tax cuts, vaccine misinformation, and whatever other insane policies emanate from MAGA Washington.
There’s a place for autopsies and wound licking, but it’s soon time to move forward."
'This underscores the importance of people’s personal financial condition. They will hire a creep if they think he’ll improve their personal prospects. Most voters neither understand nor particularly care about the rule of law or foreign policy (beyond war and peace)."
The "danger to Democracy" argument fell flat because most Americans wouldn't recognize a tyrant even if he yelled "Sieg Heil" in their faces. And there was no way to make a real case that the economy had been managed well because most voters don't have any comprehension of "the economy" beyond how much money is in their own bank account. Educated voters mostly saw through the BS, which is why Republicans will now work very hard in the next four years to dismantle public education and higher education. And whether or not voters reject their policies and program will probably depend on what their economic policies happen to do to the price of eggs and milk in the coming years.
rodoheel
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Do you allow unknown females into your house to use the restroom with your daughter?
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I am mad at how much the steaks cost, so I will vote for the guy who is going to round up the workers who make them and put up tariffs on the machines that slice them. That'll bring prices down. Very hard to get me out of FAFO mode right now.
tallheel95
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Not going to derail the thread for a debate about bathrooms, but just saying that when I studied abroad in Australia in 1994, I lived in a dorm where all of the bathrooms were co-ed. Including showers. At first it was weird for all the American students, but then we all got over it.
ETA: not that I'm arguing for co-ed showers or the like, just an observation about my experience
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rodoheel
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Yeah I completely understand people being upset about prices being high. What I don't understand is that people don't even make the barest effort to try to understand why the prices are high, what the current government had to do with it (or didn't), and how (if at all) electing someone different will change it. I simply can't condone ignorance for the sake of ignorance. In this day and age there is no excuse for not spending just a few minutes of effort to attempt to understand these things. I'm not saying everyone will reach the same conclusion - that's Democracy in action! - but "inflation was low when Trump was in office, inflation is high now, therefore Trump will lower inflation" is not a substitute for critical thinking.
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I would suggest that you consider allowing that before you allow Trump into the house with your daughter. Trump would be significantly more likely to rape them than a random sampling of unknown men.
ZenMode
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No. That would be weird, also.
rodoheel
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Right - which is the whole point, that the gender of the person doesn't make any difference. When your child, male or female, goes into a public restroom, they are doing so with strangers, male or female, who you probably wouldn't let come use the bathroom at your house. What is bizarre is that thinking that allowing trans people (a tiny minority of the population) to use the restroom of the gender with which they identify somehow increases the likelihood that your child will be assaulted or violated in the restroom - something which is obviously already illegal.
ZenMode
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Like I said yesterday, the debate about restrooms is a secondary issue. The issue, to the degree that there is one, is that Biden used an EO to guarantee males access to girls bathrooms within weeks of taking office, but took over 2 years to use EO to address the border crisis.
It's a perception of priorities. An EO for transgender students is welcomed by Democrats, so it's put into place almost immediately. An EO to address the crisis of people illegally entering the country by the millions is likely viewed as racist.
The difference is that the first is a yes or no and affects very few people in any tangible fashion. The other affects millions, the national economy and international relations. Which decision requires time, research and diplomacy? I know nuance isn't highly valued but neither is the thoughts of a fool.
ZenMode
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"A big chunk of people in this country believed that Biden borrowed cloud magic from the Jews....".
ZenMode
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Even if it's true that it takes years to take action, that situation is only one of several. The NYTimes opinion I posted on an earlier page talks about some others. Yes, it's just opinion and nobody knows for sure, even with exit polling, why Harris lost.
Here's another relatively interesting exit poll analysis. The bolded sections, I believe, say a lot. Cultural issues were the top issue for swing voters who eventually voted for Trump, according to the poll.
Why America Chose Trump: Inflation, Immigration, and the Democratic Brand
Harris couldn’t outrun her past or her party— it was a vice grip that proved impossible to escape.
November 8, 2024
KEY FINDINGS:KEY FINDINGS
The top reasons voters gave for not supporting Harris were that inflation was too high (+24), too many immigrants crossed the border (+23), and that Harris was too focused on cultural issues rather than helping the middle class (+17).
Other high-testing reasons were that the debt rose too much under the Biden-Harris Administration (+13), and that Harris would be too similar to Joe Biden (+12).
These concerns were similar across all demographic groups, including among Black and Latino voters, who both selected inflation as their top problem with Harris. For swing voters who eventually chose Trump, cultural issues ranked slightly higher than inflation (+28 and +23, respectively).
The lowest-ranked concerns were that Harris wasn’t similar enough to Biden (-24), was too conservative (-23), and was too pro-Israel (-22).
Today, Blueprint released the first data-based report about why voters cast their vote the way they did with a new poll conducted in the days after Election Day and weighted to the 2024 election results.
..........................................................
more:
Why America Chose Trump: Inflation, Immigration, and the Democratic Brand - Blueprint
Harris couldn’t outrun her past or her party— it was a vice grip that proved impossible to escape.
blueprint2024.com
I am going to evolve a little from yesterday's post that the messaging didn't matter because we first had to focus on the next two years and save Democracy for the next election.
Actually, messaging might be a big help in countering Trump seizing power and bridge over to the Presidential Election in four years.
Now I don't pretend to understand identity politics or the focus on special interest group appeasement. But this problem was evident when the Harris campaign felt it couldn't respond in some fashion to the transgender ad.
Democrats have got to emphasize messaging that its the party "for the people". This will contrast to what we know Trump will be doing. And everytime he runs counter to that, we can point it out.
And if identity politics has to be thrown under the bus.........well so be it. The future is at stake.
Actually, messaging might be a big help in countering Trump seizing power and bridge over to the Presidential Election in four years.
Now I don't pretend to understand identity politics or the focus on special interest group appeasement. But this problem was evident when the Harris campaign felt it couldn't respond in some fashion to the transgender ad.
Democrats have got to emphasize messaging that its the party "for the people". This will contrast to what we know Trump will be doing. And everytime he runs counter to that, we can point it out.
And if identity politics has to be thrown under the bus.........well so be it. The future is at stake.