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Where do we go from here?

  • Thread starter Thread starter rodoheel
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  • Politics 
A little bit of handwringing and scorn vs. literal election denial and a resurrection.

This isn’t an even playing field, ya’ll.

Sure, democrats have done some things that make people feel disrespected, but again - and this can not be said enough - Trump accused a group of people living legally in America of eating pets, insulted generals and their families, and has spouted disrespectful comments about every person, who is not him, in this country at some point in time.

The man has called for massive deportations, which may include people legally living here as refugees; a day of violence, where police are free to do what they want; and, just throwing it out there, the assassination of his political rivals, and the return of firing squads.


But, sure, sure, it is the democrats who are constantly disrespecting folks.

Ok.

He may not be Hitler, but he sure as fuck has taken Putin’s playbook.
 
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ZenMode said:
"And, again, there were no regulations promulgated in 2021 and 2022 because the pandemic policy was still in force. "

Which obviously wasn't having an impact hence the 15 year high set in March of 2021.

I'm not disputing the existence of the 2023 regulation. I'm saying that it appears like the Biden admin ignored an issue until it was getting close to being politically damaging for the re-election bid, then started the process of creating regulations that just happen to hit 5 months before the election.

You see nothing out of the ordinary. Just BAU which, to me, is likely a facade based on the link of an article calling out the border crisis in March 2021.

I'm not saying I'm right. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that you consistently take a very partisan view of your preferred political party's actions.
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Well, whatever it "appears," it's just wrong. Again, your choice is to be educated and speak the truth or to be an idiot and regurgitate bullshit. "It appears" is not an excuse for talking shit, any more than it was an excuse for JD Vance to lie about Springfield because "my constituents said."

The facts are:

1. There was no alternative to the Title 42 policy in 2021, especially not March 2021. Policies cannot be put together in two months. It's just impossible. The notice-and-comment rulemaking process itself takes longer. And if the rulemaking process is not followed to courts' satisfaction, the court will enjoin the policy change. In fact, this has happened many times during Biden's presidency -- and it's still happening even in the immigration context. This is just a fact and no amount of "it appears" bullshit can affect that.

2. There was no alternative to the Title 42 policy in 2022, because the pandemic regulations were still in force. The administration was not about to waste time on policy under a pandemic authority that was about to go away. So the administration started working on the post-pandemic policy in 2022.

3. 2024 is a completely meaningless date for understanding this process. Everything significant was begun well before January 1 of this year. No matter how much you want to say, "Biden ignored the issue until close to the election," it's quite simply not true. And the 2023 regulation, which you claim not to dispute, is proof of that. So yeah, you're either disputing its existence of you're just ignoring it. Either way, you're full of shit.

4. Nothing about what I've posted on this topic is partisan. It is textbook administrative law. You'd get the same response from Randy Barnett at G'Town Law (a staunch conservative) or John Manning at Harvard (also a conservative). This is how it works. It's mind-boggling that you would try to argue with me. I clerked on the DC Circuit, where the docket is 75% administrative law or more. I briefed many admin law cases in private practice. I taught admin law at a law school. I mean, what the fuck is wrong with you?
 
sringwal said:
Dunning-Kruger, Super.
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Yes, I know. It's Dunning-Kruger to the max. I'm not writing entirely or even primarily for his benefit. I'm hoping that others can learn some things as well, and be able to spread accurate information instead of bullshit.
 
But what you need to get is that Zen is much more politically knowledgeable than the average voter. He isn’t exactly where you think he is, because there are so many, who know so much less than he does, who think they are experts in the same way Zen does. It is shocking how little most people know about how politics works, and just how much of what they believe they know is because of constant screen time exposure to expert-level propaganda

You interact here, and probably a few other intellectual boards.

Go out, explore. Let the algorithm on Facebook, or some other social media website, and within a few days, you will be inundated with propaganda far darker than you imagine. Report back, and tell us where you are at in regards to the state of the world after.
 
Because that is what the Zens of the world are right about. Liberal elites in this country have no idea what reality is like for everyone else right now, because we tend to limit screen time and interact with other liberal elites when we are on the internet. Our lives away from devices are still fairly similar to everyone around us, but our online interactions are vastly different.

And more and more people’s virtual lives are their existence.

And liberals are badly losing the scrolling wars.

Worldwide.
 
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superrific said:
Well, whatever it "appears," it's just wrong. Again, your choice is to be educated and speak the truth or to be an idiot and regurgitate bullshit. "It appears" is not an excuse for talking shit, any more than it was an excuse for JD Vance to lie about Springfield because "my constituents said."

The facts are:

1. There was no alternative to the Title 42 policy in 2021, especially not March 2021. Policies cannot be put together in two months. It's just impossible. The notice-and-comment rulemaking process itself takes longer. And if the rulemaking process is not followed to courts' satisfaction, the court will enjoin the policy change. In fact, this has happened many times during Biden's presidency -- and it's still happening even in the immigration context. This is just a fact and no amount of "it appears" bullshit can affect that.

2. There was no alternative to the Title 42 policy in 2022, because the pandemic regulations were still in force. The administration was not about to waste time on policy under a pandemic authority that was about to go away. So the administration started working on the post-pandemic policy in 2022.

3. 2024 is a completely meaningless date for understanding this process. Everything significant was begun well before January 1 of this year. No matter how much you want to say, "Biden ignored the issue until close to the election," it's quite simply not true. And the 2023 regulation, which you claim not to dispute, is proof of that. So yeah, you're either disputing its existence of you're just ignoring it. Either way, you're full of shit.

4. Nothing about what I've posted on this topic is partisan. It is textbook administrative law. You'd get the same response from Randy Barnett at G'Town Law (a staunch conservative) or John Manning at Harvard (also a conservative). This is how it works. It's mind-boggling that you would try to argue with me. I clerked on the DC Circuit, where the docket is 75% administrative law or more. I briefed many admin law cases in private practice. I taught admin law at a law school. I mean, what the fuck is wrong with you?
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Right. In your opinion, there were literally only two options to stem the flow. Title 42 and the 2023 regulation. There were no other options at the Biden admin's disposal.

Got it.
 
ZenMode said:
Right. In your opinion, there were literally only two options to stem the flow. Title 42 and the 2023 regulation. There were no other options at the Biden admin's disposal.

Got it.
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Was the timing perfect? No. Does image matter? Yes. Was Biden’s plan somewhat for optics? Sure. But Biden would have benefited, politically, had he put out an earlier Immigration bill. Not doing so for as long as he did reads to me like much of it was because they were being careful. And it is a well written law. You should read it. All of that signals to me that a lot of what Super is saying is true. And he is certainly far more of an expert on the subject than I am. It is literally his field of study. That still matters.
 
CFordUNC said:


Will never not be funny that all it took for Republicans to completely abandon conservatism was for an obese makeup-wearing gold toilet shitting trust fund failure to come down a golden elevator.
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If they cap credit card interest rates at 10%, probably 75% of Americans will no longer have a credit card. The companies will drop their available credit to match their balance and follow the balance down with credit line drops.

This will also tank the credit scores of tens of millions of Americans as their available credit disappears and their percentage of debt to available credit balloons.

Let's be clear...credit card companies will NOT make unsecured loans to the vast majority of Americans at 10% interest rates.
 
superrific said:
Start a new thread. This is a tangent. In addition, I don't think you have a lot of insight on this particular question. You're making assumptions that are simply not warranted.
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Says the person who claims Rush Limbaugh caused hurricanes this year. Anyway, I’m done. On to bigger and better issues.
 
sringwal said:
A little bit of handwringing and scorn vs. literal election denial and a resurrection.

This isn’t an even playing field, ya’ll.

Sure, democrats have done some things that make people feel disrespected, but again - and this can not be said enough - Trump accused a group of people living legally in America of eating pets, insulted generals and their families, and has spouted disrespectful comments about every person, who is not him, in this country at some point in time.

The man has called for massive deportations, which may include people legally living here as refugees; a day of violence, where police are free to do what they want; and, just throwing it out there, the assassination of his political rivals, and the return of firing squads.


But, sure, sure, it is the democrats who are constantly disrespecting folks.

Ok.

He may not be Hitler, but he sure as fuck has taken Putin’s playbook.
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Yeah, I'm so sick of this double standard, and it is real. Donald Trump is the most verbally abusive presidential candidate in American history. He basically does nothing in his campaigns - or his presidential administrations - but talk trash and threaten individuals and whole groups of people. But somehow denigrating Democratic voters doesn't matter and isn't considered to be condescending or arrogant. But let a Democrat say anything even remotely insulting to Trumpers, and they lose their shit and play the victim and the news media focuses obsessively on it. The double standard is simple - insulting Democratic voters is acceptable and fine, insulting Trumpers is snooty and arrogant and beyond the pale. And while Democrats need to always be nice to Trumpers and not get upset by all their insults and shit-talking, Republicans have no such obligations towards Democrats. It's like those articles and posts written right after the election that liberals shouldn't shun Trumper relatives and family members over the holidays this year, even if said relatives taunt them and talk trash. Democrats just need to suck it up and take it, while Republicans can play the victim if Democrats say anything in response.
 
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Like - there is no questions that this is going to be a respectful transfer of power by democrats. Knowing what might happen. Because it is important to show, even when things don't go your way, grace and honor. And I haven't seen anyone acknowledge that because everyone is spinning this whole damned thing to fit their agenda.
 
sringwal said:
Was the timing perfect? No. Does image matter? Yes. Was Biden’s plan somewhat for optics? Sure. But Biden would have benefited, politically, had he put out an earlier Immigration bill. Not doing so for as long as he did reads to me like much of it was because they were being careful. And it is a well written law. You should read it. All of that signals to me that a lot of what Super is saying is true. And he is certainly far more of an expert on the subject than I am. It is literally his field of study. That still matters.
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Sure. I've provided no opinion on the law itself. Two things can be true. The law is well written and well thought-out and there was feet dragging in a acknowledging the border crisis as well as political concerns about taking action.
 
How about giving me a quick breakdown of the border crisis? How many people are actually involved? How many are illegal? How many are criminal? Just what are the dangerous elements that they bring? What are the major problems that are caused by them as opposed to by how we handle them? Btw, drug trafficking and immigration should be and are two separate issues, so don't bother with that.

Are we now getting more illegal immigrants through border crossings than by people overstaying visas? I'm still of a mind that the only people ever damaged by immigration to America was native Americans.
 
finesse said:
How about giving me a quick breakdown of the border crisis? How many people are actually involved? How many are illegal? How many are criminal? Just what are the dangerous elements that they bring? What are the major problems that are caused by them as opposed to by how we handle them? Btw, drug trafficking and immigration should be and are two separate issues, so don't bother with that.

Are we now getting more illegal immigrants through border crossings than by people overstaying visas? I'm still of a mind that the only people ever damaged by immigration to America was native Americans.
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Messaging Messaging Pubs are Kings
 
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