Who else just doesn't give a crap

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Yosef said:
Ask the African Americans that question. Record numbers voted for him.
Trolling question if I ever heard one...
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First of all it wasn't a question, but why do you assume I'm only talking about African Americans? I might be talking about you, whatever you are..
 
CFordUNC said:
Got it. Appreciate the substantive response. I guess my questions in response would be:

1. How can it be said that Trump’s economic plans were superb when the 2017 tax cuts added a massive amount to the national debt? The national debt grew by almost $8 trillion during the first Trump administration. That is more than twice the amount that Americans owe student loans, car loans, credit cards and every other type of debt other than mortgages, *combined*, according to data from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. The growth in the annual deficit under Trump ranks as the third-biggest increase, relative to the size of the economy, of any U.S. presidential administration. I just don’t see how you can say on one hand that you are concerned about the national debt but on the other hand tout the very Trump 1.0 economic policies that directly caused it to skyrocket.

2. Besides a colossal failure in messaging, how was the Biden administration any more of a failure than Trump 1.0 on the issue of the border? Border apprehensions are at a five year low, directly as a result of the enormous influx of resources, funding, and border patrol personnel that were allocated in the FY22 and FY23 budgets. Where else besides in the upside down world of right wing media would it be considered a failure to have the same exact lower numbers of illegal border crossings from the previous presidential administration?

3. If you believe that the onus is on the individual states to run their respective educational systems instead of having a federal Department of Education, what do you propose we do to replace the Pell Grant program, which is arguably one of the single greatest policy implementations in American history, if certain states decide they don’t want to fund higher education for first generation, rural, and low and middle income students? And what do you do to provide funding and support for special needs children if certain states decide they don’t want to do it?

4. What cuts can Ramaswamy and Musk realistically make that would both move the needle and also prevent millions upon millions of senior citizens, veterans, disabled people, etc. from losing their benefits? Isn’t something like 75% of the federal budget comprised of debt servicing, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, the military, VA, and disability benefits, completely under the purview of the United States Congress and thus unable to be cut?

As I say, I am completely open to having my mind changed about Trump 2.0. I’d love for you to be right and for me to be wrong. I’m just having a hard time understanding how and why folks think that we can be appreciably better over the next four years than we were these last four years from an economic prosperity standpoint, from a reduced crime rate and reduced illegal immigration standpoint, etc. I’m not saying it’s impossible by any means, I’m just saying that I have yet to have anyone be able to explain to me how it is supposed to happen. And I just don’t buy that cutting taxes for bazillionaires and corporations, deporting millions of immigrants, and slashing Social Security and Medicare is going to accomplish that.
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3.6 trillion from Trump's spending was COVID and mandates from COVID. Leave that out and the debt he left would have been lower than Biden's this term. Still out of control from all the presidents.

Also, Musk and company can only scratch the surface in a deficit like we have but every dollar helps and I believe Musk is the man who doesn't mind taking the heat on things like this. He'll definitely make enemies doing this and the legacy media will drill him on it.

Individual states won't cut students with special needs. They may move money around but they would cut other programs before IDEA at the state level.
 
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Yosef said:
First of all I expect Trump to continue in his line of thinking during his first presidency. Other than when COVID hit his economic plan was superb. He left the inflation rate at about 1.9 percent.
I think he will concentrate on the border. This is the MAIN area that Biden totally failed at and cost them the Oval again. I think with Elon and Vivek they will cut waste out of the government spending and personal. This won't be an easy task and Trump will get hammered by the left for it but I don't think we can continue adding onto the national debt in the fashion we were doing. Trump's deportation measures will cost a bundle but in my opinion this is all on Biden's screw up.
I do think he'll do away with the federal department of education. He'll pass it down to the States where it should be.
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"He left the inflation rate at about 1.9 percent."

Just curious, do you think any POTUS has that much power that they can honestly take credit for the state of the economy, particularly in their first term? Obama left Trump an economy in good shape in 2016. So Obama is a genius then? Obama inherited the Great Recession in 2008-2009 from George W. Bush and by 2016 things were much better by most metrics.
 
Bobfripp said:
"He left the inflation rate at about 1.9 percent."

Just curious, do you think any POTUS has that much power that they can honestly take credit for the state of the economy, particularly in their first term? Obama left Trump an economy in good shape in 2016. So Obama is a genius then? Obama inherited the Great Recession in 2008-2009 from George W. Bush and by 2016 things were much better by most metrics.
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That's a great question and one that can't be answered in a statement or two. It can be argued both ways by either side. Biden made a statement that Trump's inflation rate was 9% when it was actually 1.9%. All the politicians lie like crazy. They almost have to to get elected these days.
 
Yosef said:
3.6 trillion from Trump's spending was COVID and mandates from COVID. Leave that out and the debt he left would have been lower than Biden's this term. Still out is it if control from all presidents.

Also, Musk and company can only scratch the surface in a deficit like we have but every dollar helps and I believe Musk is the man who doesn't mind taking the heat on things like this. He'll definitely make enemies doing this and the legacy media will drill him on it.

Individual states won't cut students with special needs. They may move money around but they would cut other programs before IDEA at the state level.
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I hear ya. Thanks for the responses. We may not agree, and I recall that we didn't see eye to eye on the previous board at all, but I appreciate your willingness to answer those questions and have the discussion. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong. I'm certainly pulling hard for you to be correct.
 
CFordUNC said:
I hear ya. Thanks for the responses. We may not agree, and I recall that we didn't see eye to eye on the previous board at all, but I appreciate your willingness to answer those questions and have the discussion. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong. I'm certainly pulling hard for you to be correct.
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Enjoyed the civil conversation. Not a lot of that happens these days. Just look at the post above yours here. Unreal...
 
Yosef said:
That's a great question and one that can't be answered in a statement or two. It can be argued both ways by either side. Biden made a statement that Trump's inflation rate was 9% when it was actually 1.9%. All the politicians lie like crazy. They almost have to to get elected these days.
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True, Biden was wrong. The 9% peak occurred in 2022. As we all know now, Biden is a bit foggy in the head due to age (perhaps an understatement). But I don't think he was trying to be deceptive (i.e., lie). That is Trump's domain entirely. And Trump inherited a hot economy from Obama and only had 3 years to affect it. Not nearly enough.
 
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Yosef said:
Ask the African Americans that question. Record numbers voted for him.
Trolling question if I ever heard one...
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He still got less than 20% of the black vote, so it's hardly as if he won even close to a majority. I mean, he did increase his vote, but to listen to Republicans like yourself you'd think that Trump actually won a majority of the black vote.
 
Mulberry Heel said:
He still got less than 20% of the black vote, so it's hardly as if he won even close to a majority. I mean, he did increase his vote, but to listen to Republicans like yourself you'd think that Trump actually won a majority of the black vote.
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If the Democrats lose the black votes and it seems like they slowly are it's gonna be a long time in getting in the Oval again.
They better ditch the progressive movement that AOC pressured them into and get back to normalcy.
 
uncgriff said:
The election laid bare the fact that facts don't matter any more. Lies and social media propaganda are the order of the day.

Que sera sera.

Haven't watched a minute of TV news since the election. Read my news feed with a bit of existential Sartre nausea but don't really give a crap. Similar to how I currently feel about UNC football really.

Unfortunately the political reality will have far greater consequences for everyone than a historically mediocre football program being mediocre.
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To get back to the original post, I do think there's been a sea change in the attitude of many liberals I know well. After 2016 many of them were in shock that Trump won and baffled at how so many people honestly thought he could possibly be qualified in any way for the office, but they were also still fired up and ready to resist and keep pushing for their beliefs. After this election I get the clear sense that many liberals are just beyond fed up and are simply withdrawing from politics, at least for a long while. They're sick of discussing it, sick of dealing with cocky Trumper relatives and on social media, and very depressed about the future of the country and what Trump's election to a second term says about us as a people. A surprising number have just deleted their social media accounts.

And as a liberal myself I can't blame any of them, as this election has been not a shock or source of anger so much as just a depressing realization that this is who we are as a people. I also can't blame anyone for just stepping away, at least for a good while. Democrats don't control any branch of the federal government, so they can't stop anything that Trumpers want to do from happening anyway. I think the attitude of many liberals I know is that this is what Americans wanted, so let them have it and face the consequences.
 
Yosef said:
If the Democrats lose the black votes and it seems like they slowly are it's gonna be a long time in getting in the Oval again.
They better ditch the progressive movement that AOC pressured them into and get back to normalcy.
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Well, that ain't going to happen. There's room for only one right-wing party in this country, and Trumpers have definitely cornered that market. As long as we have a two-party system it's very unlikely that one party will keep a majority for very long. Trump won in 2016 but Democrats did very well in 2018 and 2020, so we'll see what happens.
 
Yosef said:
First of all I expect Trump to continue in his line of thinking during his first presidency. Other than when COVID hit his economic plan was superb. He left the inflation rate at about 1.9 percent.
I think he will concentrate on the border. This is the MAIN area that Biden totally failed at and cost them the Oval again. I think with Elon and Vivek they will cut waste out of the government spending and personal. This won't be an easy task and Trump will get hammered by the left for it but I don't think we can continue adding onto the national debt in the fashion we were doing. Trump's deportation measures will cost a bundle but in my opinion this is all on Biden's screw up.
I do think he'll do away with the federal department of education. He'll pass it down to the States where it should be.
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Yes. The States do a wonderful job funding and supporting education…….especially in poor counties.
 
Mulberry Heel said:
To get back to the original post, I do think there's been a sea change in the attitude of many liberals I know well. After 2016 many of them were in shock that Trump won and baffled at how so many people honestly thought he could possibly be qualified in any way for the office, but they were also still fired up and ready to resist and keep pushing for their beliefs. After this election I get the clear sense that many liberals are just beyond fed up and are simply withdrawing from politics, at least for a long while. They're sick of discussing it, sick of dealing with cocky Trumper relatives and on social media, and very depressed about the future of the country and what Trump's election to a second term says about us as a people. A surprising number have just deleted their social media accounts.

And as a liberal myself I can't blame any of them, as this election has been not a shock or source of anger so much as just a depressing realization that this is who we are as a people. I also can't blame anyone for just stepping away, at least for a good while. Democrats don't control any branch of the federal government, so they can't stop anything that Trumpers want to do from happening anyway. I think the attitude of many liberals I know is that this is what Americans wanted, so let them have it and face the consequences.
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This is me to a T. Over it, resigned to having things suck, disappointed in humanity and society, just gonna let everyone have what they want. Will be more than happy to be a jerk and say “you get what you voted for” though. Quietly panicked for my children and the world they will inherit but there is no fight left in me. Disengaging from politics because I have no answers and no power. Looking to find some new hobbies and happier ways to spend my time.
 
Yosef said:
If the Democrats lose the black votes and it seems like they slowly are it's gonna be a long time in getting in the Oval again.
They better ditch the progressive movement that AOC pressured them into and get back to normalcy.
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Exactly which policy did Harris get from AOC?

Many discussions of why Harris lost is that she was too centrist.

Climate change is real no matter how many time trump calls it a hoax. How is his policy of pushing increasing production of fossil fuels going to help the climate.
 
I legit don't care anymore.

I'm going to buy a new car before the end of December. My first one in a long time. Pulled money out of an investment family members gave me when I was young, for the first time. Parents had completely forgotten about it. When I told them the number it was at, they laughed. Even as conservatives and former Trump supporters, they know the stock market is about to crater because of the tariffs.

They told me to take as much as I want out, because the rest is probably going to go up in smoke. I took enough out that I can pay a good down payment on a decent vehicle that should keep me going through the next four years, when gas prices skyrocket because of tariffs on Canada, and vehicle prices skyrocket because of tariffs on Mexico.

Combined with the immigrants who do our food preparation, Americans are going to go broke, starve, and won't afford transportation. Rental and home prices are already too high, and they're not going down in the next administration, unless we're building soviet style block housing.

I hate it. I truly truly TRULY do. And I feel for my friends who are going to suffer, like my lady-friend who told me she's going to put an IUD in her 15 year old daughter because she's scared if she gets raped she's going to be a grandmother to an unwilling daughter. And my gay friends who might lose their civil rights, and my friends of color that will be under even worse scrutiny than they were before. I cannot comprehend the pain that people like them are going to feel if things get as bad as they could.

But I don't care anymore. I accept my privilege. I hope things don't get as bad as I think they're going to get. But it's going to get bad. I have shelter. I'm going to have a new car to keep me going. I have a stable job that I'm good at and I'm needed. I have my parents to take care of, a sister to check on regularly, and that's...pretty much it. It's a little sad, admitted. I don't care. I'll be better off than most. I'm going to live a simple life, and put my Cohiba Red Labels out on the ash that's left over. Truth be told, I'm probably going to drop dead of a heart attack from my stressful nature sooner than later. Always joked I'd be dead before 45 of a heart attack. Well, here I am at that age.

So live for now. Not stupidly, but know that tomorrow isn't promised.

Apologies for the morbidity. Just the truth from a guy who has given out his last eff.
 
DougDaBroadcasta said:
I legit don't care anymore.

I'm going to buy a new car before the end of December. My first one in a long time. Pulled money out of an investment family members gave me when I was young, for the first time. Parents had completely forgotten about it. When I told them the number it was at, they laughed. Even as conservatives and former Trump supporters, they know the stock market is about to crater because of the tariffs.

They told me to take as much as I want out, because the rest is probably going to go up in smoke. I took enough out that I can pay a good down payment on a decent vehicle that should keep me going through the next four years, when gas prices skyrocket because of tariffs on Canada, and vehicle prices skyrocket because of tariffs on Mexico.

Combined with the immigrants who do our food preparation, Americans are going to go broke, starve, and won't afford transportation. Rental and home prices are already too high, and they're not going down in the next administration, unless we're building soviet style block housing.

I hate it. I truly truly TRULY do. And I feel for my friends who are going to suffer, like my lady-friend who told me she's going to put an IUD in her 15 year old daughter because she's scared if she gets raped she's going to be a grandmother to an unwilling daughter. And my gay friends who might lose their civil rights, and my friends of color that will be under even worse scrutiny than they were before. I cannot comprehend the pain that people like them are going to feel if things get as bad as they could.

But I don't care anymore. I accept my privilege. I hope things don't get as bad as I think they're going to get. But it's going to get bad. I have shelter. I'm going to have a new car to keep me going. I have a stable job that I'm good at and I'm needed. I have my parents to take care of, a sister to check on regularly, and that's...pretty much it. It's a little sad, admitted. I don't care. I'll be better off than most. I'm going to live a simple life, and put my Cohiba Red Labels out on the ash that's left over. Truth be told, I'm probably going to drop dead of a heart attack from my stressful nature sooner than later. Always joked I'd be dead before 45 of a heart attack. Well, here I am at that age.

So live for now. Not stupidly, but know that tomorrow isn't promised.

Apologies for the morbidity. Just the truth from a guy who has given out his last eff.
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"""are going to suffer, like my lady-friend who told me she's going to put an IUD in her 15 year old daughter because she's scared if she gets raped she's going to be a grandmother to an unwilling daughter. And my gay friends who might lose their civil rights, and my friends of color that will be under even worse scrutiny than they were before. """

You seriously can't believe this? Why didn't Trump do this his first term? Why did he place a gay man in his cabinet?
You seriously need to quit watching The View as your news source.
 
Yosef said:
"""are going to suffer, like my lady-friend who told me she's going to put an IUD in her 15 year old daughter because she's scared if she gets raped she's going to be a grandmother to an unwilling daughter. And my gay friends who might lose their civil rights, and my friends of color that will be under even worse scrutiny than they were before. """

You seriously can't believe this? Why didn't Trump do this his first term? Why did he place a gay man in his cabinet?
You seriously need to quit watching The View as your news source.
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He didn't keep his promise to put a Libertarian in his cabinet.

You think I trust him?

Oh, and I'm sure your comments would really help my lady-friend. I voted against my personal self-interest to benefit society as a whole. That's the difference between people like me and you.
 
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