2024 Pre-Election Political Polls | POLL - Trump would have had 7 point lead over Biden

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Zoo_View said:
Why couldn’t he caucus by himself (King and Sanders are going to caucus with the Democrats) and negotiate his vote?

The Democrats and the country might be better off if he’s not affiliated with the Democrats, as he would be if he’s caucusing with the Democrats.

In the unlikely event that Osborn wins the Nebraska Senate race, I’d like to see him win re-election. I’d like to see him inspire other “blue collar” Independents who aren’t Republicans with an “I” after their names run for office and win.

If we have 5 US Senators from red states like Osborn in 5 years, I’m good if they don’t caucus with the Democrats.
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It depends if he wants to win in 2030. The only reason he's competitive now is that the Dems didn't run a candidate. Basically, all the NE Dems are supporting him. Well, they aren't going to do that again if he's just a Pub lite. If he doesn't vote for Schumer, the Dems will run a candidate and he will lose.

And it's precisely because of that scenario (of an independent caucus forming in the Senate) that he will find slim pickings from either side, I would think, if he tries to negotiate. The Pubs definitely don't want an independent caucus. Their entire brand is that "we're the non-Dems." They aren't going to give him anything to be an I who caucuses with him. The Dems would probably welcome an (I) caucus so long as the (I)s come from Pub states. So far, that's not really what has happened, right? King would win as a Dem. Sanders would definitely win as a Dem. It sure looks like the (I) Synema will be replaced by a Dem. This guy, if elected, would be the first I from a red state. But that's not really enough for the Dems to justify supporting a guy who can't even vote for Schumer.

I guess what I'm saying is that the Dems will expect him to be at least Joe Manchin.
 
theel4life said:
Jfc
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Eh, it's sort of predictable, right? Trump supporters will never admit their guy is a failure at anything, just as he will not. Many more Dems have a capacity for self-reflection. Basically, if you're a person voting for Kamala because you loathe Trump, you can admit that you're voting for the lesser evil. But if you're voting for Trump, then you've got a problem: how can you possibly maintain that Trump is the lesser evil? So they mythologize. It's the flip side of the "Trump was chosen by God" BS, which functions the same way (i.e. Trump looks bad, but is really good because he's doing God's work no matter what it looks like). Or QAnon. There are whole industries devoted to convincing MAGAs that their horror show of a political party is actually less bad than the alternative.
 
superrific said:
Eh, it's sort of predictable, right? Trump supporters will never admit their guy is a failure at anything, just as he will not. Many more Dems have a capacity for self-reflection. Basically, if you're a person voting for Kamala because you loathe Trump, you can admit that you're voting for the lesser evil. But if you're voting for Trump, then you've got a problem: how can you possibly maintain that Trump is the lesser evil? So they mythologize. It's the flip side of the "Trump was chosen by God" BS, which functions the same way (i.e. Trump looks bad, but is really good because he's doing God's work no matter what it looks like). Or QAnon. There are whole industries devoted to convincing MAGAs that their horror show of a political party is actually less bad than the alternative.
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Of course Trump voters can decide he is the lesser of two evils. Heelyeah has. Lots of people think Democrats are bad for the country and that Trump is a moron. Some of those people are now Republicans for Harris and some are like Heelyeah.
 
Calheel said:
Of course Trump voters can decide he is the lesser of two evils. Heelyeah has. Lots of people think Democrats are bad for the country and that Trump is a moron. Some of those people are now Republicans for Harris and some are like Heelyeah.
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My point is that the decision is based on false assertions. HY has many, many times expressed views that are clearly inaccurate. He doesn't care, because to engage with the truth is to call his decision into question. This is why both HY and MAGAs disappear from threads when they are exposed.
 
superrific said:
My point is that the decision is based on false assertions. HY has many, many times expressed views that are clearly inaccurate. He doesn't care, because to engage with the truth is to call his decision into question. This is why both HY and MAGAs disappear from threads when they are exposed.
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But voting for the lesser of two evils doesn’t require facts. Most of the people who think this way are operating in a largely fact-free zone anyway.

All the same, many, many Republicans will go to the polls this year and select Trump on the belief that he is the lesser evil.
 
Calheel said:
But voting for the lesser of two evils doesn’t require facts. Most of the people who think this way are operating in a largely fact-free zone anyway.

All the same, many, many Republicans will go to the polls this year and select Trump on the belief that he is the lesser evil.
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The "voting for the lesser of two evils " meme takes me back to my childhood.

My grandmother was an unabashed liberal and actually attended the Woolworth sit-in to support the Greensboro 4. A fond memory of mine was watching the JFK-Nixon debates with her...but I digress.

She and I put together a scrapbook of 1960 political cartoons during the election. There was one showing two men talking across a fence and one is asking the other...

"Who you gonna vote against ? "
 
heelinhell said:
The "voting for the lesser of two evils " meme takes me back to my childhood.

My grandmother was an unabashed liberal and actually attended the Woolworth sit-in to support the Greensboro 4. A fond memory of mine was watching the JFK-Nixon debates with her...but I digress.

She and I put together a scrapbook of 1960 political cartoons during the election. There was one showing two men talking across a fence and one is asking the other...

"Who you gonna vote against ? "
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I know William Barr gets a lot of flack on this forum -- and rightfully so, one of the worst AG's of all time -- but I liked his line about who he would vote for if the choice were Biden or Trump: "I'll jump off that bridge when I come to it."
 
Calheel said:
I know William Barr gets a lot of flack on this forum -- and rightfully so, one of the worst AG's of all time -- but I liked his line about who he would vote for if the choice were Biden or Trump: "I'll jump off that bridge when I come to it."
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[editor's note: Barr did not jump off a bridge; he unsurprisingly later endorsed Trump.]
 
rodoheel said:
[editor's note: Barr did not jump off a bridge; he unsurprisingly later endorsed Trump.]
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Had he in fact jumped off the bridge, there was a risk of a minor earthquake. Best he just keep walking.

Barr supporting Trump is a good example though of someone who dislikes Trump, but dislikes Democrats even more. He just blasted Biden for reclassifying marijuana -- even though Trump has likewise pushed to relax marijuana laws. He is very much a Bush Sr. type republican. Some of those -- like Dick Cheney -- have made the jump to Harris. But the vast majority of those old school Republicans see Harris as the greater or the two evils.

Anyway, enough side discussion of two-evil voting. Time to get back to obsessing over the latest poll drops.
 
Had lunch today with a 30-year U.S. Army veteran, retired Colonel, and someone who served as a commander in Iraq in the mid-2000’s. This guy is a classically Republican, classically conservative gentleman originally from rural Indiana. He has worked closely with HR McMaster, Mark Milley, Rex Tillerson, John Kelly, David Patraeus, and William McRaven in his career. He said that he has never cast a vote for a Democratic presidential or gubernatorial candidate in his life, and didn’t plan on ever doing so, but has absolutely zero hesitation in voting for Kamala Harris, because despite policy disagreements on quite literally almost everything, he says that Kamala Harris is commander in chief material and Donald Trump is not.

“Lesser of two evils” voters are either liars or morons. There is no alternative, and I don’t care what anyone says. There is no “lesser of two evils” when one of the two “evils” openly roots against America and our allies, openly sides with our foreign enemies, calls our troops and Purple Heart winners and Gold Star recipients and POW’s “suckers and losers”, has gotten American intelligence assets killed and captured, and treats our most sensitive national secrets with reckless criminal disregard. If you cast a vote for *that* and justify it as voting for the “lesser of two evils”, you’re either a lying sack of shit or a sucker, but you aren’t reasonable or rational. Don’t care how that makes anyone else feel. Nobody voting for Trump in 2024 is voting for the lesser of two evils; they’re voting for someone they either like, agree with his policies, or both. End of story.
 
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