Black enrollment at UNC drops after ruling. Group who sued now coming for Duke.

[CFordUNC]

And I am proud to say UNC puts a good bit of their fundraising and resultant Endowement towards Financial aid Tell us about it Cford!!!

Yep! They absolutely do. In the most recent $4B fundraising campaign, they raised a full $1B of it specifically in new scholarship funds.

The Carolina Covenant program is in its 20th year of existence as of this year. I’ve shared in the past that I was in the 5th class of Covenant scholars back in the day, and it was the very first program of its kind at any public university in the country. Total game-changer. At the time when I was fortunate to receive one, the household income threshold for a family of four was around $40,000. It’s now, I believe, around $55,000. But what’s just as neat is that UNC made middle income students a priority in the last campaign by creating the equivalent Blue Sky Scholars program for students whose FAFSA EFC doesn’t qualify them for Pell Grants and other federal aid, but whose families can’t pay out of pocket for tuition costs.

 

[mpaer]

Thank you Cford I know you have discussed this on the past board . I wanted to get it on this one

 

[CFordUNC]

This actually made me interested in going back and checking. I can still see my old financial aid documents from 2009 in my Connect Carolina portal and it looks like my FAFSA EFC was 0 and my parents’ AGI was $33,346. It looks like that at the time, even though the overall financial aid package which I was awarded was called “Carolina Covenant”, it was a hodgepodge mixture of state aid, institutional aid, Pell Grant aid, CFNC aid, and other grants. But again that was only in the fifth year of the program’s existence, whereas now they have built an actual enormous endowment for the Covenant which enables the university to divert fewer other institutional resources to aid.

 

[mpaer]

This actually made me interested in going back and checking. I can still see my old financial aid documents from 2009 in my Connect Carolina portal and it looks like my FAFSA EFC was 0 and my parents’ AGI was $33,346. It looks like that at the time, even though the overall financial aid package which I was awarded was called “Carolina Covenant”, it was a hodgepodge mixture of state aid, institutional aid, Pell Grant aid, CFNC aid, and other grants. But again that was only in the fifth year of the program’s existence, whereas now they have built an actual enormous endowment for the Covenant which enables the university to divert fewer other institutional resources to aid.

As it should have been!

 

[mpaer]

Pell Grant-I have a departed friend (probably born in the 1920s ) His primary resume point was Admissions Director at Princeton. He told me the initial planning meeting to Lobby for the Pell Grant was held at UNC. I assume Bill Friday organized it
UNC has a history of good stuff

 

[Zoo_View]

This is a bit of a common misunderstanding, I think, that a lot of folks have. But donors and alumni can’t “demand schools do something with those endowment dollars” because endowment dollars, by their very nature, are highly restricted in their specific utility by legally-binding gift agreements that are essentially contracts between institutions and donors. It’s why schools like UVA with a $15B endowment still work hard to continue to raise enormous amounts of money year over year, even though you’d think that they wouldn’t need to, what with a $15B endowment.

At schools with huge endowments, it is very typical for 90%+ of the overall endowment to be comprised entirely of restricted-use dollars. Endowments at universities, while they are generally invested and managed as a one large pool of money, they are not accessible as, or distributed as, one large pool of money as similar to, say, a checking account or a slush fund. A university endowment is comprised of hundreds or thousands of small individual endowed funds, each one individually created by an individual donor, for things like scholarships, student aid, faculty support, research, capital projects, etc. Each of those smaller endowed funds within the larger overall university endowment has its own legally-binding gift agreement signed by the donor and the university that the funds can only be used in the exact manner specified in the gift agreement. In other words, if a donor creates an endowed fund for a scholarship for an engineering student from Wake County, that fund cannot be used for a student studying business from Durham County. Or an endowed fund created with the purpose of providing funding for the department of English, can’t be used to provide funding to the department of physics. And so on.

The only funds from a university’s endowment that can be used in any manner at the discretion of the president, chancellor, dean, etc. are funds that are considered to be fully unrestricted. So if, as an alumnus donor, you wanted to give unrestricted support to the College of Egineering at Georgia Tech, you’d have to give it to whatever the CoE at Tech calls their “dean’s discretionary fund” at the CoE. Similarly, if you want to broadly support Georgia Tech as a whole, you’d give your dollars to the Georgia Tech Fund which is essentially the Institute’s presidential discretionary fund.

As I mentioned, only about 10% (and often times much less than that at many schools) of annual operating revenue from donor gifts and/or endowment returns comes in the form of unrestricted dollars. So if a school like UNC, with a $4B endowment, has an annual return of 4%- and if 90% of that return is already essentially spoken for because the dollars are restricted, it leaves comparatively very little discretionary income.

For any school that is offering more need-based financial aid to low-income and middle-income students, it’s because that school is specifically focusing its fundraising efforts on increasing the number of endowed scholarship funds that it has, not because the school is deciding to use other endowment funds to increase the financial aid pool.

You work and/or consult in this field, IIRC.

Regardless, thanks for the post.

 

[CFordUNC]

You work and/or consult in this field, IIRC.

Regardless, thanks for the post.

Sure thing. It’s probably one of the very few topics on this board on which I can speak with at least some small shred of intelligence. I work more on the wealth management side, working with/advising family offices, ultra high net worth families and individuals, trusts, family foundations, etc. but I have a friend who works for the company that invests and manages Duke University’s and Duke Health’s endowment as well as the defined benefit pension plan assets at Duke. So I know just enough to be dangerous!

 

[Zoo_View]

Sure thing. It’s probably one of the very few topics on this board on which I can speak with at least some small shred of intelligence. I work more on the wealth management side, working with/advising family offices, ultra high net worth families and individuals, trusts, family foundations, etc. but I have a friend who works for the company that invests and manages Duke University’s and Duke Health’s endowment as well as the defined benefit pension plan assets at Duke. So I know just enough to be dangerous!

You’re relatively young. How did you end up in this field?

Sounds like it could be fun and interesting; also, based on what you’ve posted, you rack up some serious air miles and nights away from home.

Hope that ends soon for you and your wife.

 

[CFordUNC]

You’re relatively young. How did you end up in this field?

Sounds like it could be fun and interesting; also, based on what you’ve posted, you rack up some serious air miles and nights away from home.

Hope that ends soon for you and your wife.

I actually got incredibly lucky, through no skill or merit of my own, and had a pair of mutual UNC football connections with a couple of older guys who had been in the space for a while. I always say that the time in which i was in school was one of the most tumultuous four years in which to be in the football program and there wasn’t a whole lot of on-field fun- and certainly a lot of off-field misery- so the best thing that happened for me was having had some of the older UNC football alumni take me under the wing after I graduated. There was kind of a falling out between the football program and the football lettermen after John Bunting was fired and as Butch Davis and then Larry Fedora after him, candidly, weren’t very receptive to having former lettermen and folks from outside of the current team around the program (and in hindsight maybe understandably so given the whole NCAA fiasco). So the football lettermen started getting together independently of the program and I was lucky to have gotten involved and had a couple of guys in there who spent a lot of time helping me after I graduated.

 

[altmin]

MEANWHILE... the same group is going after Duke

Yale, Princeton and Duke Are Questioned Over Decline in Asian Students

The legal group that won a Supreme Court case that ended race-based college admissions suggested it might sue schools where the percentage of Asian students fell.

www.nytimes.com

The group that successfully sued Harvard to end affirmative action in university admissions last year is now threatening to investigate whether schools are complying with the new rules and to file lawsuits if it believes that they are not.

The group, Students for Fair Admissions, has focused on three universities — Princeton, Yale and Duke — where there were notable declines in Asian American enrollment this year compared with the last year, which the group said defied expectations.

On Tuesday, Students for Fair Admissions sent letters to the schools questioning whether they were complying with the rules laid out by the Supreme Court. Princeton, Duke and Yale also saw minor differences in Black and Hispanic enrollment in the first class of students admitted since the court struck down race-conscious admissions.

The group, a nonprofit that opposes race-based admissions and that represented Asian students in the lawsuit against Harvard, suggested that it was setting itself up as an enforcer of the new rules.

“Based on S.F.F.A.’s extensive experience, your racial numbers are not possible under true neutrality,” the letters, signed by Edward Blum, the president of Students for Fair Admissions, said. It added: “You are now on notice. Preserve all potentially relevant documents and communications.”

 

[Mulberry Heel]

Same thing is happening in the corporate world - conservative groups are targeting individual corporations and using a variety of attacks to force them to drop their DEI policies and initiatives. When they succeed (as they recently did with Lowe's Home Improvement, for example) they move on to another corporate target.

 

[altmin]

Same thing is happening in the corporate world - conservative groups are targeting individual corporations and using a variety of attacks to force them to drop their DEI policies and initiatives. When they succeed (as they recently did with Lowe's Home Improvement, for example) they move on to another corporate target.

One of the shows I worked on got targeted by a Stephen Miller backed group. And this was a show run by white conservatives and white former military people. The guy suing can't write, which is why he hasn't risen above script coordinator despite decades in Hollywood, but Miller is using this as an opening to finally get white people a chance.

The final season of the show I believe all the writers, except one, were white.

CBS Loses Bid to Dismiss Lawsuit From ‘SEAL Team’ Scribe Over Alleged Racial Quotas for Hiring Writers

The studio claimed that its shows constitute artistic speech and that it's allowed to choose the writers who convey its message. The court's order referenced another judge advancing a similar discrimination lawsuit from Gina Carano against Disney and Lucasfilm.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

 

[mpaer]

MEANWHILE... the same group is going after Duke

Yale, Princeton and Duke Are Questioned Over Decline in Asian Students

The legal group that won a Supreme Court case that ended race-based college admissions suggested it might sue schools where the percentage of Asian students fell.

www.nytimes.com

The group that successfully sued Harvard to end affirmative action in university admissions last year is now threatening to investigate whether schools are complying with the new rules and to file lawsuits if it believes that they are not.

The group, Students for Fair Admissions, has focused on three universities — Princeton, Yale and Duke — where there were notable declines in Asian American enrollment this year compared with the last year, which the group said defied expectations.

On Tuesday, Students for Fair Admissions sent letters to the schools questioning whether they were complying with the rules laid out by the Supreme Court. Princeton, Duke and Yale also saw minor differences in Black and Hispanic enrollment in the first class of students admitted since the court struck down race-conscious admissions.

The group, a nonprofit that opposes race-based admissions and that represented Asian students in the lawsuit against Harvard, suggested that it was setting itself up as an enforcer of the new rules.

“Based on S.F.F.A.’s extensive experience, your racial numbers are not possible under true neutrality,” the letters, signed by Edward Blum, the president of Students for Fair Admissions, said. It added: “You are now on notice. Preserve all potentially relevant documents and communications.”

I am so sure this group really loves the Asian community-and has no racist hate for Afam students

 

[uncmba]

Interesting tidbits from the article in The NY Times linked above:

Among the variables shaping the current numbers is the jump in the percentage of students who chose not to check the boxes for race and ethnicity on their applications. At Princeton, for instance, that number rose to 7.7 percent this year from just 1.8 percent last year. At Duke it rose to 11 percent from 5 percent. Universities may not know whether the “unknown” number includes more white and Asian American students.

Universities have also tried to achieve more diversity by increasing the percentage of students on financial aid, to 71 percent from 66 percent at Princeton.

“We have carefully adhered to the requirements set out by the Supreme Court,” Jennifer Morrill, a spokeswoman for Princeton, said Tuesday. Yale and Duke did not provide immediate comment.

“It is deeply ironic that Mr. Blum now wants admissions numbers to move in lock step,” said Oren Sellstrom, litigation director for Lawyers for Civil Rights in Boston, which has filed a complaint with the Department of Education against Harvard’s legacy admissions policy, accusing it of favoring white applicants.

Asian American enrollment dropped to 29 percent from 35 percent at Duke; to 24 percent from 30 percent at Yale; and to 23.8 percent from 26 percent at Princeton. At the same time, Black enrollment rose to 13 percent from 12 percent at Duke; stayed at 14 percent at Yale; and dropped to 8.9 percent from 9 percent at Princeton.

In the court case, Harvard, supported by other universities, including Yale, Princeton and Duke, argued that considering race as one of many factors in an application was the best way to achieve diversity in college classes. The Supreme Court ruled that giving preferences to students based on race violated the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment and civil rights law.

To comply with the court’s decision, colleges did not allow their admissions officers to see the boxes where applicants checked off their race or ethnicity until after students had been admitted, the waiting lists had been closed, and the students had actually enrolled.

But in one of the most enigmatic parts of its decision, the court allowed admissions officers to consider race if it came up in the student’s personal essay as part of a narrative about something meaningful in the student’s life.

In the letters sent out Tuesday, Students for Fair Admissions hinted that the essay was going to be a big part of its investigation into admissions procedures. It noted in the first paragraph of the letters that the court had warned against using essays to circumvent the new admissions rules.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

Interesting tidbits from the article in The NY Times linked above:

Among the variables shaping the current numbers is the jump in the percentage of students who chose not to check the boxes for race and ethnicity on their applications. At Princeton, for instance, that number rose to 7.7 percent this year from just 1.8 percent last year. At Duke it rose to 11 percent from 5 percent. Universities may not know whether the “unknown” number includes more white and Asian American students.

Universities have also tried to achieve more diversity by increasing the percentage of students on financial aid, to 71 percent from 66 percent at Princeton.

“We have carefully adhered to the requirements set out by the Supreme Court,” Jennifer Morrill, a spokeswoman for Princeton, said Tuesday. Yale and Duke did not provide immediate comment.

“It is deeply ironic that Mr. Blum now wants admissions numbers to move in lock step,” said Oren Sellstrom, litigation director for Lawyers for Civil Rights in Boston, which has filed a complaint with the Department of Education against Harvard’s legacy admissions policy, accusing it of favoring white applicants.

Asian American enrollment dropped to 29 percent from 35 percent at Duke; to 24 percent from 30 percent at Yale; and to 23.8 percent from 26 percent at Princeton. At the same time, Black enrollment rose to 13 percent from 12 percent at Duke; stayed at 14 percent at Yale; and dropped to 8.9 percent from 9 percent at Princeton.

In the court case, Harvard, supported by other universities, including Yale, Princeton and Duke, argued that considering race as one of many factors in an application was the best way to achieve diversity in college classes. The Supreme Court ruled that giving preferences to students based on race violated the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment and civil rights law.

To comply with the court’s decision, colleges did not allow their admissions officers to see the boxes where applicants checked off their race or ethnicity until after students had been admitted, the waiting lists had been closed, and the students had actually enrolled.

But in one of the most enigmatic parts of its decision, the court allowed admissions officers to consider race if it came up in the student’s personal essay as part of a narrative about something meaningful in the student’s life.

In the letters sent out Tuesday, Students for Fair Admissions hinted that the essay was going to be a big part of its investigation into admissions procedures. It noted in the first paragraph of the letters that the court had warned against using essays to circumvent the new admissions rules.

It is interesting that fewer students chose to check the race box. I could see a scenario where applicants no longer check a box since it doesn't help them gain admission but I wouldn't think it would happen that fast. I wonder if the application changed to ask that question later. That could account for the significantly lower response rate.

 

[SmilingJack]

It is interesting that fewer students chose to check the race box. I could see a scenario where applicants no longer check a box since it doesn't help them gain admission but I wouldn't think it would happen that fast. I wonder if the application changed to ask that question later. That could account for the significantly lower response rate.

Oh yeah the advent of the "Mud People" come on Jacket you're better than this

 

[CRHeel94]

MEANWHILE... the same group is going after Duke

Yale, Princeton and Duke Are Questioned Over Decline in Asian Students

The legal group that won a Supreme Court case that ended race-based college admissions suggested it might sue schools where the percentage of Asian students fell.

www.nytimes.com

The group that successfully sued Harvard to end affirmative action in university admissions last year is now threatening to investigate whether schools are complying with the new rules and to file lawsuits if it believes that they are not.

The group, Students for Fair Admissions, has focused on three universities — Princeton, Yale and Duke — where there were notable declines in Asian American enrollment this year compared with the last year, which the group said defied expectations.

On Tuesday, Students for Fair Admissions sent letters to the schools questioning whether they were complying with the rules laid out by the Supreme Court. Princeton, Duke and Yale also saw minor differences in Black and Hispanic enrollment in the first class of students admitted since the court struck down race-conscious admissions.

The group, a nonprofit that opposes race-based admissions and that represented Asian students in the lawsuit against Harvard, suggested that it was setting itself up as an enforcer of the new rules.

“Based on S.F.F.A.’s extensive experience, your racial numbers are not possible under true neutrality,” the letters, signed by Edward Blum, the president of Students for Fair Admissions, said. It added: “You are now on notice. Preserve all potentially relevant documents and communications.”

My son has a theory that some of those schools dropped because the best Asians are getting scooped up by the very top schools (MIT, Stanford, Harvard).

 

[kickazzz2000]

Agreed. It's not fair to paint with a broad brush...BUT...I can tell you that the amount of stress many Asian families put on kids even at the elementary level is supremely unhealthy.

Yep. Take the energy some of yall put on your kids from travel ball starting at age 3 and focus that on academics.

Didn’t think so.

 

[Mundial]

It may have already been noted but from an article on this:

Challenges to the Argument​

Several things jump out about the analysis.

First, it is based on the assumption that the applicants are evaluated on the basis of grades and scores on either the SAT or ACT. In fact, Harvard and Chapel Hill consider a variety of factors (such as the essay, extracurricular activities, etc.).

Second, both institutions are now admitting applicants who opt not to submit SAT or ACT scores.

Shirley J. Wilcher, executive director of the American Association for Access, Equity and Diversity, said she did not have time to “carefully assess” the study. But, she said, “One might suggest caution, however, in making assumptions about the ‘harm’ that advantaged students are allegedly experiencing because of the presumed ‘preferences’ that underrepresented students are benefiting from.”

In addition, in a court ruling that upheld the legality of UNC’s affirmative action program, Judge Loretta C. Biggs wrote that Arcidiacono’s research (for that trial) was “more susceptible to picking up spurious correlations in the data.” So she rejected his research.

Study sees advantages for Black and Latinx applicants to Harvard, UNC

Study finds large advantages for Black and Latinx applicants to Harvard and University of North Carolina. Is it valid? Will this sway the Supreme Court?

www.insidehighered.com