Black enrollment at UNC drops after ruling. Group who sued now coming for Duke.

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Legacy should absolutely be taken into consideration as part of the holistic review of an application for college admission. Should legacy enable an unqualified or mediocre applicant to gain admission to a prestigious or elite university over a much more qualified non-legacy applicant? No, of course not. And nobody is saying that it should. But legacy should absolutely be taken into consideration as yet another data point in the holistic review of an application, if nothing more than as a mere tiebreaker of sorts.

Public universities that are increasingly reliant upon private individual philanthropy to maintain their standard of excellence would be cutting off their nose to spite their face by not considering legacy. Considering legacy as one data point amongst many in reviewing applications is not saying that donors should be able to buy their children or grandchildren a way in to the university. Considering legacy simply helps to steward long-standing, often times multi generational, family ties and relationships with a university. If you want public universities to completely eliminate legacy consideration altogether, start by advocating to your local state legislator to do a much better job of funding its public universities so that they are not so reliant upon individual philanthropy.

States can legislatively outlaw legacy admission practices at their public universities, but they won’t be able to eliminate it altogether. The Commonwealth of Virginia, for example, passed a law earlier this year that legacy cannot be considered as part of application criteria at any of the public universities in Virginia. UVA, for example, complied with that law by removing the question on the application that specifically asked whether the applicant is the child or grandchild of UVA alumni, and replaced it with an optional essay prompt that asked applicants to describe what connections, if any, an applicant has to UVA and why attending the University of Virginia would be meaningful to the applicant.
 
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CFordUNC said:
Legacy should absolutely be taken into consideration as part of the holistic review of an application for college admission. Should legacy enable an unqualified or mediocre applicant to gain admission to a prestigious or elite university over a much more qualified non-legacy applicant? No, of course not. And nobody is saying that it should. But legacy should absolutely be taken into consideration as yet another data point in the holistic review of an application, if nothing more than as a mere tiebreaker of sorts.

Public universities that are increasingly reliant upon private individual philanthropy to maintain their standard of excellence would be cutting off their nose to spite their face by not considering legacy. Considering legacy as one data point amongst many in reviewing applications is not saying that donors should be able to buy their children or grandchildren a way in to the university. Considering legacy simply helps to steward long-standing, often times multi generational, family ties and relationships with a university. If you want public universities to completely eliminate legacy consideration altogether, start by advocating to your local state legislator to do a much better job of funding its public universities so that they are not so reliant upon individual philanthropy.

States can legislatively outlaw legacy admission practices at their public universities, but they won’t be able to eliminate it altogether. The Commonwealth of Virginia, for example, passed a law earlier this year that legacy cannot be considered as part of application criteria at any of the public universities in Virginia. UVA, for example, complied with that law by removing the question on the application that specifically asked whether the applicant is the child or grandchild of UVA alumni, and replaced it with an optional essay prompt that asked applicants to describe what connections, if any, an applicant has to UVA and why attending the University of Virginia would be meaningful to the applicant.
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Yes
At UNC if your UNC parents are rich or not rich-it doesn't matter. You don't buy your way into UNC. Legacy likely has a legitimate data point for an applicant to stay at UNC and be involved after graduation
 
mpaer said:
Yes
At UNC if your UNC parents are rich or not rich-it doesn't matter. You don't buy your way into UNC. Legacy likely has a legitimate data point for an applicant to stay at UNC and be involved after graduation
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I'm against it because it disadvantages students through no fault of their own. It tends to favor kids with wealthy parents.

I understand why a university might want to give an admissions slot to a student from a rich family who will donate over some poor kid who worked hard despite his parents never going to college or a kid whose parents immigrated and had to work 3 jobs. I don't think its right for the tax payers. That poor kid had to work a whole lot harder than the rich kid to get to the same place for the admissions committee. If I'm going to give someone an advantage in case of a tie, I'm giving it to them.
 
I was a poor kid originally from one of the poorest parts of the poorest county in North Carolina. Not one single person in my extended family had a college degree, out of four grandparents, 17 sets of aunts and uncles, and 62 first cousins. I grew up in a family of four where the household income was $30,000 in a good year. I attended UNC on a combination of need-based aid and Pell grants.

I absolutely, positively think that legacy should be taken into consideration as part of the holistic application review.

Public universities already take so many unique factors into consideration when reviewing an individual applicant, including and especially geographical and socioeconomic background. They also consider whether an applicant’s parents or older siblings are college graduates are not. Low income and middle income students who are qualified applicants are not getting passed over for admission consideration in favor of affluent or wealthy legacy applicants. I can guarantee that if all things are relatively equal, a low income or middle income applicant from Robeson County in North Carolina is most likely getting into UNC over an upper middle income or high income legacy applicant from Wake or Orange or Mecklenburg County.

As usual, GTyellowjacket is opining on something about which he has no actual understanding. This is no different than his belief, despite being repeatedly told otherwise, that university endowments are just enormous slush fund checking accounts. Legacy is not boosting high income or affluent applicants into college at the expense of low income or middle income non-legacy applicants. It isn’t happening. If anything, legacy is boosting high income or a fluent applicants into college at the expense of other high income or affluent non-legacy applicants.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I'm against it because it disadvantages students through no fault of their own. It tends to favor kids with wealthy parents.

I understand why a university might want to give an admissions slot to a student from a rich family who will donate over some poor kid who worked hard despite his parents never going to college or a kid whose parents immigrated and had to work 3 jobs. I don't think its right for the tax payers. That poor kid had to work a whole lot harder than the rich kid to get to the same place for the admissions committee. If I'm going to give someone an advantage in case of a tie, I'm giving it to them.
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Why are you against giving a bump to hard working Black kids who are so underrepresented. You talk out of both sides of your mouth
 
mpaer said:
Why are you against giving a bump to hard working Black kids who are so underrepresented. You talk out of both sides of your mouth
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I'm not against giving a bump to hard-working black kids or hard-working white kids who have economic circumstances that are worse than black or white kids who have wealthy parents.

Why are you for giving a bump to legacy kids who tend to be white and wealthy? You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
 
aGDevil2k said:
Does UNC limit the number of kids who are admitted from any one county in NC?
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They do not. The only 'county quota' that they have is that they try to ensure that all 100 counties in North Carolina are represented in each admissions cycle, but there is no limit to the number of students per county that they will admit. They typically average 92-94 counties out of 100 represented in any given year, and the 6 that are not represented almost always have zero applicants in the first place.
 
aGDevil2k said:
Does UNC limit the number of kids who are admitted from any one county in NC?
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They say they don't. The numbers don't bear that out.

My understanding is that UNC and NC State both have a cap for certain counties to keep those counties kids from taking up all the slots. So if they hit the cap for Wake County, and there is a kid just outside of that cap, he isn't going to make it but if a kid with similar admissions stats is from Lee County, that kid could get in. To me that's advantaging the poor counties over the wealthier counties.

NC would also describe it as giving advantages to kids from poorer counties which has the effect of disadvantaging kids from wealthier counties. I'm actually okay with it. It's a school for all of North Carolinians.
 
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gtyellowjacket said:
They say they don't. The numbers don't bear that out.

UNC would describe it as giving advantages to kids from poorer counties which has the effect of disadvantaging kids from wealthier counties. I'm actually okay with it. It's a school for all of North Carolinians.
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I know that you are allergic to facts that don't buttress your beliefs, but the only 'county quota' that they have is that they try to ensure that all 100 counties in North Carolina are represented in each admissions cycle. There is no limit to the number of students per county that they will admit. They typically average 92-94 counties out of 100 represented in any given year, and the 6 that are not represented almost always have zero applicants in the first place.

As usual, you are wrong.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
They say they don't. The numbers don't bear that out.

UNC would describe it as giving advantages to kids from poorer counties which has the effect of disadvantaging kids from wealthier counties. I'm actually okay with it. It's a school for all of North Carolinians.
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The UNC kids I know from hick counties were often sons/daughters of Judges and doctors
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
Legacy should play no part in admission and I have two degrees from UNC and so does my wife. My kids shouldn’t get a bump because of that.
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They won't get a 'bump' because you and your wife are UNC degree-holders. Legacy isn't being used to give a 'bump', which implies that legacy is being used to boost an otherwise lesser-qualified applicant over a more qualified applicant. If anything, your kids' legacy status would be used as a mere tiebreaker, and probably a very, very last resort one at that.
 
mpaer said:
The UNC kids I know from hick counties were often sons/daughters of Judges and doctors
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That would be my guess for the majority. I still think it's a little harder. Yes they have an advantage over their poorer schoolmates with less educated parents but they are still going to the same public schools for the most part. I do think they have a disadvantage over the doctor or judge's kid in Orange County who has a whole lot more resources and typically better teachers.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
That would be my guess for the majority. I still think it's a little harder. Yes they have an advantage over their poorer schoolmates with less educated parents but they are still going to the same public schools for the most part. I do think they have a disadvantage over the doctor or judge's kid in Orange County who has a whole lot more resources and typically better teachers.
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Yea could be
My soon graduated from Chapel Hill high school in 2000-one HS school then-so there had to be 4-500 Srs. Thirty % of his class got admitted to UNC--that is not a typo. So "restrictions" on certain counties is not too much of a thing I guess
 
Less than 20% of UNC's student body is currently comprised of legacy students. About 20% of UNC's student body is comprised of students who are the very first members of their families to attend college (first-generation). About 40% of UNC's student body qualifies for need-based financial aid.

Legacy is not considered for in-state applicants who are children or grandchildren of UNC alumni. Legacy is only considered for out-of-state applicants at UNC. I'll repeat that, and bold and italicize it, because GTyellowjacket is a little slow on the uptake. Legacy is not considered for in-state applicants who are children or grandchildren of UNC alumni. Legacy is only considered for out-of-state applicants at UNC. In-state children of alumni account for approximately 13-17% of the incoming class each year. Again, for GTyelowjacket: In-state children of alumni account for approximately 13-17% of the incoming class each year.

The only “preference” given to legacy at UNC is that out-of-state children of alumni receive an extra review by a member of the admissions team if they indicate on the application that they are the child of an alumni. This does not guarantee admission - just an extra look at their application.
In-state applicant children of alumni do not receive a secondary review. There is no preference given to these applicants.
 
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mpaer said:
Yea could be
My soon graduated from Chapel Hill high school in 2000-one HS school then-so there had to be 4-500 Srs. Thirty % of his class got admitted to UNC--that is not a typo. So "restrictions" on certain counties is not too much of a thing I guess
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It's definitely a thing. How much of a thing is certainly arguable because UNC and most other schools keeps their admissions process pretty close to their vest.

Statistically it has to be if you were just basing it on things like grades and SAT scores. But to your point, UNC still admits 41% of the in-state students that apply. It's a great school but it doesn't have some of the Draconian admission rates of the Ivy league or Duke that are in the mid single digits.
 
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