GOP & Policies toward/treatment of Transgender & other LGBTQ Americans

[BlooVooDoo]

I have an issue with those who ignore science in favor of feelings and identity politics.

Says the guy ignoring science in favor of their own antiquated feelings.

 

[finesse]

Zen's actually done a good job for a change. He's sure got a lot of people quibbling over the least important part of the topic title.

Well done. One day, you can be a real troll.

 

[4thgenheel]

Zen's actually done a good job for a change. He's sure got a lot of people quibbling over the least important part of the topic title.

Well done. One day, you can be a real troll.

yeah, this is what the right does - they've got ignorant assholes up in arms over the total non-issue of a handful of trans athletes nationwide while they simultaneously roll back human and civil rights and protections for millions of lgbtq people all over the country just trying to exist peacefully.

i certainly empathize with their plight but the athletic careers of a handful of trans athletes are pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme.

on the other hand, states banning same sex marriage and firing teachers for acknowledging their same sex relationships is unconscionable bullshit and a huge fucking problem that affects a whole lot more people.

 

[ZenMode]

See, I stopped when you lied and said that science says that men are bigger, stringer, and faster. This is a complete lie as there are many example showing that to be false and not the absolute that you claim.

Sure, there are exceptions and, yes, there are women who are bigger, stronger and faster than some men. I didn't say all. However, at every comparable level of experience and training, a large majority males will be more athletic (a generic reference to being bigger, stronger and faster) than a large majority of females.

Additionally, some women are bigger, faster, and stronger than the women they play with, so I guess, based on your premise that we should disban all sports where all contestants are not the same size, strength, and have equal athletic ability.

We generally do a decent job of ensuring competitive balance. We have age ranges for sports, so 20 year olds don't play against 13 year olds. We have different levels of competition i.e. Freshman vs Jr. Varsity vs Varsiity. In boxing and wrestling, we have weight categories. We do this to try to promote fairness. In golf we have a seniors tour.

And, of course, we start by separating male and female sports when it makes biological sense (aka puberty). Generally, it starts in junior high/middle school. It continues in high school, through the pros and includes the Olympics. I believe the Olympics now has a female equivalent for every male sport. The last addition being boxing.

Sound ridiculous doesn't it?

It sounds very reasonable.

That because it is and this false narrative is what you keep standing behind.

If true, then the people who implemented the fairness steps (described above) are all complicit in this "narrative".

There are plenty of women that are bigger, faster, and stronger than men.

Yes there are some.

 

[McAdooSmackinYou]

The youngest pro soccer player ever is currently McKenna Whitham, who became the youngest player in the National Women's Soccer League (NWSL) at 14 years old.

 

[UNCatTech]

Sure, there are exceptions and, yes, there are women who are bigger, stronger and faster than some men. I didn't say all. However, at every comparable level of experience and training, a large majority males will be more athletic (a generic reference to being bigger, stronger and faster) than a large majority of females.


We generally do a decent job of ensuring competitive balance. We have age ranges for sports, so 20 year olds don't play against 13 year olds. We have different levels of competition i.e. Freshman vs Jr. Varsity vs Varsiity. In boxing and wrestling, we have weight categories. We do this to try to promote fairness. In golf we have a seniors tour.

And, of course, we start by separating male and female sports when it makes biological sense (aka puberty). Generally, it starts in junior high/middle school. It continues in high school, through the pros and includes the Olympics. I believe the Olympics now has a female equivalent for every male sport. The last addition being boxing.

It sounds very reasonable.


If true, then the people who implemented the fairness steps (described above) are all complicit in this "narrative".

Yes there are some.

So, stop with the blanket statements regarding men and women in sports.

Other than very high level sports we, as a society, seem to accept men and women playing together.

The numbers and the risk don't justify your stance that the very few trans females should be banned.

By your logic every trans females should dominate their sport, not finish 5th tied with a nut bag from Kentucky.

 

[EhringhausSouth]

This is really a very simple fix. Just allow leagues/governing bodies to make their own rules regarding the issue. Don't like the rule, deal with it or find a new league to participate in. If League ABC decided gotta play based on biological sex, fine. If League DEF decided they are good with it, so be it.

 

[Zoo_View]

No it isn't. It's great for the country.

What's embarrassing is your continued 1850's approach to inclusiveness.

Com’on…..ZenMode is as modern as 1950’s Alabama.

 

[Zoo_View]

This prompted my reply you have quoted:
“That's why a group of old guys can beat the women's national team in soccer....easily and the 1150th rank mail tennis player can beat the 57th ranked female tennis player.”
Of course a ranked male will most always beat a ranked female in tennis. Its power.

I’m just curious……how often does a 1150th ranked male beat a 250-300th ranked male?

I expect it’s often.

Look at Olympic Finals in swimming and track. The 5th-8th Finalists are often beaten badly by the 1st-4th ones.

The athletes in the earlier rounds who lost and didn’t advance were CRUSHED by finalists who were crushed in the Finals.

LeBron and Michael Phelps and Usain Bolt and Tadej Pogacar are/were light years better than their best opponents. They are better year-after-year-after-year-after-year-after-year-after-year-after-year…….they’re better than the next “best of his year” athletes…..

My point is that the difference between the 250th rated male athlete and the 2000th rated one is likely TINY.

Those Top 2000 athletes in each sport are generally really good; the Top 100-2000 aren’t even comparable to the Top 25, Top 10. The 20th isn’t comparable to the Top 5.

The 2nd or 3rd isn’t comparable to first…….and first (Bolt, Phelps, Pogacar, etc.) reign for YEARS.

The 50th-2000th ranked battle each other for the privilege of getting crushed in the national or world heats.

 

[Zoo_View]

This is really a very simple fix. Just allow leagues/governing bodies to make their own rules regarding the issue. Don't like the rule, deal with it or find a new league to participate in. If League ABC decided gotta play based on biological sex, fine. If League DEF decided they are good with it, so be it.

The sporting organizing bodies are dealing with this. I’m talking about the governing bodies that rule Olympics, World Games, World Championships……US Olympic Trials…….

 

[UNCatTech]

C'mon now. Zen did not say "all" men are bigger, faster and stronger. He just said "men" -- which should be fairly interpreted as including an "on average" in there. You are the one adding an implied "all."

It is certainly true that the average male has substantially more muscle mass than the average female. Even a male that has been on hormone blockers for two years will, on average, still have more muscle mass and bone density than a female.

There are lots of good arguments to support transwomen playing in female sports (and lots of good arguments for them not to play). But arguing that some women are stronger than some men is not one of those good arguments.

All of zen's years of posting have shown that he didn't mean on average. Additionally he could have easily said on average.

I am not arguing that men are not on average bigger, stronger, and more athletic. But for zen's premise to work the least man has to be greater than ALL women, which isn't true.

If his position were true then every trans athlete would win everything they participated in. They clearly do not.

Additionally your last paragraph is wrong, I'm not arguing that. My point is that zen is misusing the statements about science and claiming that men are bigger stronger and faster, without acknowledging all the examples where it isn't true, because they don't fit his narrative and they refute his absolutism that no Trans female should ever be allowed to play sports with females.

 

[finesse]

This is really a very simple fix. Just allow leagues/governing bodies to make their own rules regarding the issue. Don't like the rule, deal with it or find a new league to participate in. If League ABC decided gotta play based on biological sex, fine. If League DEF decided they are good with it, so be it.

This. That serves two purposes. No one makes them do or not do it and people who know most about the sport/game get to decide what they think is best .

 

[ZenMode]

Other than very high level sports we, as a society, seem to accept men and women playing together.

The numbers and the risk don't justify your stance that the very few trans females should be banned.

By your logic every trans females should dominate their sport, not finish 5th tied with a nut bag from Kentucky.

Polling doesn't reflect that and the reference to puberty reflects that those polled probably aren't only talking about only high level sports.

Poll: Most Americans oppose trans women competing in female sports, including 2 of 3 in Gen Z​

Overall, 75% of American adults say trans women shouldn't be allowed to play on female sports teams, per the NBC News Stay Tuned Poll. Gen Z is the most supportive.

.........................

Many Gen Zers who spoke with NBC News about the topic discussed the complexity and nuances around it, such as how going through male puberty or taking hormone suppressants could affect a trans woman’s physical development.

“A lot could be fixed by having a separate column for trans sports,” said Julian Miller, 22, from Texas. “Just like how we separate male and females, we should separate trans males and trans females to compete against each other. I know there might not be a lot of competition at first, but as the sport grows, so will the competition.”

Poll: Most Americans oppose trans women competing in female sports, including 2 of 3 in Gen Z

Overall, 75% of American adults say trans women shouldn't be allowed to play on female sports teams, per the NBC News Stay Tuned Poll. Gen Z is the most supportive.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[UNCatTech]

Polling doesn't reflect that and the reference to puberty reflects that those polled probably aren't only talking about only high level sports.

Poll: Most Americans oppose trans women competing in female sports, including 2 of 3 in Gen Z​

Overall, 75% of American adults say trans women shouldn't be allowed to play on female sports teams, per the NBC News Stay Tuned Poll. Gen Z is the most supportive.

.........................

Many Gen Zers who spoke with NBC News about the topic discussed the complexity and nuances around it, such as how going through male puberty or taking hormone suppressants could affect a trans woman’s physical development.

“A lot could be fixed by having a separate column for trans sports,” said Julian Miller, 22, from Texas. “Just like how we separate male and females, we should separate trans males and trans females to compete against each other. I know there might not be a lot of competition at first, but as the sport grows, so will the competition.”

Poll: Most Americans oppose trans women competing in female sports, including 2 of 3 in Gen Z

Overall, 75% of American adults say trans women shouldn't be allowed to play on female sports teams, per the NBC News Stay Tuned Poll. Gen Z is the most supportive.

www.nbcnews.com

I don't give a fuck about poles.

Men and women participate in rec leagues and other less competitive sports all the time.

I'm done with this conversation.

I'm proud that I support people's freedom to be themselves, people's mental wellbeing, and support the fair treatment of marginalized groups.

You continue to show that you're hate those groups and seem to believe because enough people hate those same groups that it's ok, fine you have to live with yourself, no one else.

I really hope that you end up like some of my former bigoted friends who had to face reality when their children came out as LBGTQ. It's amazing how most of them changed.

But I can have any more conversations with you. Your troll agends is just too much.

One last thing, look at the ignorance of the post you quoted saying we could just have trans males and Trans females compete against each other. How would that work when most states don't have enough trans players to field a team, much less a league.

Just another example of these people not educating themselves on the actual numbers and actual risk, rather they do as you do and believe everything fox news and the trumplicans tell them.

One would think that people would be smart enough to realize trump lies and has an agenda to keep people arguing and distracted, while he and his core group get rich fucking the country.

But hey, we might become an oligarchy, we might loose medical freedoms, LBGTQ and other marginalized groups might see their equal rights set back by decades, but it's ok, since you stopped that .01% chance of a trans female playing sports. It's all worth it, right? Don't answer we know your position.

 

[Mulberry Heel]

No surprise at all, but Southern Baptists at their annual National Convention yesterday voted to push for banning gay marriage again and urged the Supreme Court to overturn Obergefell. I'm sure several posters on here, to judge from their comments about transgenders and the LGBTQ community generally, will privately applaud this move.

 

[UNCatTech]

No surprise at all, but Southern Baptists at their annual National Convention yesterday voted to push for banning gay marriage again and urged the Supreme Court to overturn Obergefell. I'm sure several posters on here, to judge from their comments about transgenders and the LGBTQ community generally, will privately applaud this move.

Is there another group that wants life to be as miserable and boring as the southern baptist?

 

[ZenMode]

No surprise at all, but Southern Baptists at their annual National Convention yesterday voted to push for banning gay marriage again and urged the Supreme Court to overturn Obergefell. I'm sure several posters on here, to judge from their comments about transgenders and the LGBTQ community generally, will privately applaud this move.

The government can't discriminate based on sexual orientation. They can't offer marriage to only straight people any more than they could offer driver's licenses to only straight people.

It's that simple, IMO.

 

[HintonJamesHeel]

I saw a poll on CNN that said 4 years ago the Republicans supported gay marriage at 55%. Now they support it at 41%. Democrats have stayed steady around 88%.

The trans issue around kid transitions and the sports distractions is the only thing that has changed. Unfortunately, traditional gay couples have been lumped together with an issue that doesn’t really have anything to do with them but people are not clever enough to differentiate. A man marrying a man has nothing to do with whether a 16 year old should be able to take hormone blockers or if a trans girl can compete against other girls.

 

[finesse]

Is there another group that wants life to be as miserable and boring as the southern baptist?

Wasn't always so bad. There was a conservative takeover in 1980. They were never flaming liberals but were somewhat reasonable.


A 1970 poll by the Baptist Sunday School board found that a majority of Southern Baptist pastors supported abortion in a number of instances, including when the woman’s mental or physical health was at risk or in the case of rape or fetal deformity.

The SBC passed its first resolution on abortion two years before the Roe decision. While the Convention never supported the right of a woman to have an abortion at her request for any reason, the resolution did acknowledge the need for legislation that would allow for some exceptions.

In fact, many Southern Baptists saw the Roe decision as drawing a needed line between church and state on matters of morality and state regulation. A Baptist Press article just days after the decision called it an advancement of religious liberty, human equality and justice.

The Convention affirmed this resolution in 1974 after Roe was decided. A 1976 resolution condemned abortion as “a means of birth control” but still insisted the decision ultimately remained between a woman and her doctor.

A 1977 resolution clarified the Convention’s position, reaffirming its “strong opposition to abortion on demand.” However, it also reaffirmed the Convention’s views about the limited role of government and the right of pregnant women to medical services and counseling. This resolution was affirmed again in 1979.

 

[nycfan]