GOP & Policies toward/treatment of Transgender & other LGBTQ Americans

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EhringhausSouth said:
So are you saying a male can be a female if he believes in his head he is a female? Yes or no.

I shouldn't have said pretending, because probably that isn't what is happening, but there probably is some sort of mental issue to create that kind of confusion. Outside of actual intersex/chromosomal stuff that is extremely rare, it's pretty simple from a biological perspective. I'll admit from a mental standpoint it is likely more complicated. Just because it is a well known example, you can look at the congressional representative from Delaware, McBride. That person is clearly a biological male. There is nothing about that person that even remotely makes anyone think it's a female. Which is why on a previously locked thread, I had pointed out that I didn't think McBride was actually serious about transitioning and that it very well (in my opinion highly likely) could be a massive troll job as it doesn't appear to be a serious attempt at transitioning. And the way McBride has gone on social media with some really over the top leftist viewpoints, I am just not convinced McBride is actually serious about any of it. And wouldn't be a bit shocked if I found out later it was some long drawn out troll job to poke fun at the modern day far left. Hopefully I don't get a ban as a result of throwing this theory out there again, but I really think it is highly likely that is what is going on with McBride. Am I really the only one that thinks that is the case?
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Your argument is that you think one trans person is a troll and therefore the whole thing is a hoax? And you're contesting the stupid label?

I'm frankly tired of mooks like you disregarding actual science in favor of their own time-worn and retrograde brainwashing. The fact is that you don't know a goddamn thing about gender dysphoria, so why are you talking as if you do? My wife is a child psychiatrist; she sees a lot of trans kids and she can tell you with 100% certainty that gender dysphoria is real and gender-affirming care is wildly beneficial. She's seen it literally dozens of times in her career. She knows things about gender. You do not.
 
superrific said:
Your argument is that you think one trans person is a troll and therefore the whole thing is a hoax? And you're contesting the stupid label?

I'm frankly tired of mooks like you disregarding actual science in favor of their own time-worn and retrograde brainwashing. The fact is that you don't know a goddamn thing about gender dysphoria, so why are you talking as if you do? My wife is a child psychiatrist; she sees a lot of trans kids and she can tell you with 100% certainty that gender dysphoria is real and gender-affirming care is wildly beneficial. She's seen it literally dozens of times in her career. She knows things about gender. You do not.
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I like how I can't possibly know anything because I have a difference of opinion on an issue. But that is beside the point. So would you say removing male genitalia from a male that believes he is a female and is very sincere in this belief is a good thing? If so, at what age would such a procedure be appropriate in your opinion. I am trying to understand the thinking behind this. I also am not completely dismissing gender dysphoria, I think there is enough evidence to suggest it is real, but I do likely have a difference of opinion on the best approach to treat it. I do know a thing or two about the human body and brain. I teach Health for a living and also do a section of AP Psychology from time to time.
 
EhringhausSouth said:
So are you saying a male can be a female if he believes in his head he is a female? Yes or no.

I shouldn't have said pretending, because probably that isn't what is happening, but there probably is some sort of mental issue to create that kind of confusion. Outside of actual intersex/chromosomal stuff that is extremely rare, it's pretty simple from a biological perspective. I'll admit from a mental standpoint it is likely more complicated. Just because it is a well known example, you can look at the congressional representative from Delaware, McBride. That person is clearly a biological male. There is nothing about that person that even remotely makes anyone think it's a female. Which is why on a previously locked thread, I had pointed out that I didn't think McBride was actually serious about transitioning and that it very well (in my opinion highly likely) could be a massive troll job as it doesn't appear to be a serious attempt at transitioning. And the way McBride has gone on social media with some really over the top leftist viewpoints, I am just not convinced McBride is actually serious about any of it. And wouldn't be a bit shocked if I found out later it was some long drawn out troll job to poke fun at the modern day far left. Hopefully I don't get a ban as a result of throwing this theory out there again, but I really think it is highly likely that is what is going on with McBride. Am I really the only one that thinks that is the case?
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I don't believe you are serious with this argument.

Back to the topic, let's say your hypothetical is true and a man pretends to be a woman to be the roommate of a cis gender girl in the dorms.

What is the logic that anyone would do that? If they are transitioning to be a woman then they are more than likely attracted to men. If the roommate is uncomfortable there are policies for requesting different roommates.

So, what is your concern? And do you believe that there are not policies in place to rectify that concern?

Also, you do realize the very small percentage of people who are trans, correct? What's the probability of any of these things happening?
 
EhringhausSouth said:
I like how I can't possibly know anything because I have a difference of opinion on an issue. But that is beside the point. So would you say removing male genitalia from a male that believes he is a female and is very sincere in this belief is a good thing? If so, at what age would such a procedure be appropriate in your opinion. I am trying to understand the thinking behind this. I also am not completely dismissing gender dysphoria, I think there is enough evidence to suggest it is real, but I do likely have a difference of opinion on the best approach to treat it. I do know a thing or two about the human body and brain. I teach Health for a living and also do a section of AP Psychology from time to time.
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I don't believe one can set a defined age for everyone. We know that people mature differently. My understanding is that it's a long process of counseling well before surgery is an option. I've read many testimonials and they support the decisions being on an individual basis. One trans female that did a TED talk said that her earliest memories she felt that she was a girl.
 
EhringhausSouth said:
So are you saying a male can be a female if he believes in his head he is a female? Yes or no.

I shouldn't have said pretending, because probably that isn't what is happening, but there probably is some sort of mental issue to create that kind of confusion. Outside of actual intersex/chromosomal stuff that is extremely rare, it's pretty simple from a biological perspective. I'll admit from a mental standpoint it is likely more complicated. Just because it is a well known example, you can look at the congressional representative from Delaware, McBride. That person is clearly a biological male. There is nothing about that person that even remotely makes anyone think it's a female. Which is why on a previously locked thread, I had pointed out that I didn't think McBride was actually serious about transitioning and that it very well (in my opinion highly likely) could be a massive troll job as it doesn't appear to be a serious attempt at transitioning. And the way McBride has gone on social media with some really over the top leftist viewpoints, I am just not convinced McBride is actually serious about any of it. And wouldn't be a bit shocked if I found out later it was some long drawn out troll job to poke fun at the modern day far left. Hopefully I don't get a ban as a result of throwing this theory out there again, but I really think it is highly likely that is what is going on with McBride. Am I really the only one that thinks that is the case?
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Do you believe in evolution?
Do you agree there are 9+ billion people on the earth.
Do you agree that no two of them are exactly the same?

Doesn't the simply probabilities and the potential evolution add up to the distinct possibility that trans people are exactly as they say they are?

Considering how many other species naturally transition, I don't understand why it is hard to believe.
 
UNCatTech said:
Do you believe in evolution?
Do you agree there are 9+ billion people on the earth.
Do you agree that no two of them are exactly the same?

Doesn't the simply probabilities and the potential evolution add up to the distinct possibility that trans people are exactly as they say they are?

Considering how many other species naturally transition, I don't understand why it is hard to believe.
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On top of that of that why does it even matter?
 
Trump: I want to fuck my daughter.

MAGA: Oh, ok. A little weird but whatever.

Georgia: keep this bitch alive, she has a bun in the oven and we need some future labor to replace the Mexicans we’re putting in Auschwitz Alcatraz.

MAGA: I mean yeah lol obvi. I’m not trying to pick asparagus lol.

LGBT people: your fucked up gender shit is fucked up and I reject it.

MAGA: YOU SHOULD KILL YOURSELF
 
UNCatTech said:
Do you believe in evolution?
Do you agree there are 9+ billion people on the earth.
Do you agree that no two of them are exactly the same?

Doesn't the simply probabilities and the potential evolution add up to the distinct possibility that trans people are exactly as they say they are?

Considering how many other species naturally transition, I don't understand why it is hard to believe.
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I do believe there is some adaptation and change over time, you can see bacteria evolve under a microscope, I am unsure on macroevolution, but I have zero issues with it, it doesn't negate a creator in my opinion. I was thinking there was a little over 8 billion people on earth, but either way, yes, no two are exactly the same. I just simply. do not think transgenderism is really a thing in actuality, because you can't simply become the other gender regardless of how you present yourself or express yourself. I do think people should be able to express themselves however and adults should be able to have whatever surgery they want to have, it still doesn't change their gender though. So for the purposes of operating and doing things out in the world, others should not be forced to participate in the charade, so people should have to do things with their biological sex like sports, college roommate situations, public restrooms, etc. With that said, I am well aware that I have likely been in a public space with a "transgender" person at some point and never knew it because they did such a good job with the transition. Still, they are not the other gender in the end. I just like to live in a space of reality.
 
Bigs23 said:
Right. Why does it matter what people chose to identify themselves as? Who/What does it harm?
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It shouldn't matter, but having heard conversations about this issue it does seem that a great many people care about it very much, and there is genuine fear out there of "perverts" using women's restrooms or "weirdo" drag queens or transgenders abusing kids, along with a bedrock belief (fed by right wing media) that there is a real agenda in public schools to "confuse" kids about their gender and get them to change it and so on.

In other words, baseless conspiracy theories fed by the right-wing media network and believed absolutely by a great many people, including some I know that I would not call Trumpers, but who nonetheless believe that this issue is a step too far for them. If I had a dollar for every comment of "I don't care about gay marriage or gays, but I don't want men using women's restrooms" or "I don't think people who are still male should be participating in women's sports", I'd be a good deal wealthier. I don't agree with them and I agree with most of the board that it shouldn't matter, but for whatever reason it does seem to be a hot-button issue for very large numbers of people. And I do think it's hurting Democrats whether anyone admits it or not, but at the same time the ugly truth is that if Democrats don't defend this very vulnerable population then no one will.

I'll also add that the worries from Trumpers and others about "men using women's restrooms" and being perverts is rich coming from folks who are mostly Religious Right conservatives. It seems as if there is at least one story or more a week about some preacher or televangelist molesting or abusing underage kids. I read somewhere a few months ago that since the Tennessee legislature passed a ban on public drag shows and passed a bunch of transgender restrictions there hasn't been a single case of someone from those groups abusing kids, but there have been plenty of stories in Tennessee of Evangelical preachers and others doing so. Instead of worrying about a tiny handful of transgenders competing in women's sports and who is using women's restrooms, social conservatives ought to be making sure that their ministers and other church officials aren't abusing underage and vulnerable people in their congregation.
 
EhringhausSouth said:
I do believe there is some adaptation and change over time, you can see bacteria evolve under a microscope, I am unsure on macroevolution, but I have zero issues with it, it doesn't negate a creator in my opinion. I was thinking there was a little over 8 billion people on earth, but either way, yes, no two are exactly the same. I just simply. do not think transgenderism is really a thing in actuality, because you can't simply become the other gender regardless of how you present yourself or express yourself. I do think people should be able to express themselves however and adults should be able to have whatever surgery they want to have, it still doesn't change their gender though. So for the purposes of operating and doing things out in the world, others should not be forced to participate in the charade, so people should have to do things with their biological sex like sports, college roommate situations, public restrooms, etc. With that said, I am well aware that I have likely been in a public space with a "transgender" person at some point and never knew it because they did such a good job with the transition. Still, they are not the other gender in the end. I just like to live in a space of reality.
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Well you did answer.

I stand corrected, there are just over 8 billion.

I read a little contradiction in your acceptance of adult expression yet wanting to still have exclusions.

Public restrooms are the stupidest of the discriminations. No one truly knows who is in the stall beside them and I'm sure that all of us have been in unisex restrooms or in the restroom designated for the other "gender".

If you are so concerned about participating in a charade. I hope your kids are never truly bad at something they enjoy, wouldn't want to participate in the charade by not telling them they suck and should stop.

As for changing genders, at some point it will be reality from a biological stand point. We already know a plethora of ways to manipulate and change biology, and nature has provided examples.
 
Mulberry Heel said:
It shouldn't matter, but having heard conversations about this issue it does seem that a great many people care about it very much, and there is genuine fear out there of "perverts" using women's restrooms or "weirdo" drag queens or transgenders abusing kids, along with a bedrock belief (fed by right wing media) that there is a real agenda in public schools to "confuse" kids about their gender and get them to change it and so on.

In other words, baseless conspiracy theories fed by the right-wing media network and believed absolutely by a great many people, including some I know that I would not call Trumpers, but who nonetheless believe that this issue is a step too far for them. If I had a dollar for every comment of "I don't care about gay marriage or gays, but I don't want men using women's restrooms" or "I don't think people who are still male should be participating in women's sports", I'd be a good deal wealthier. I don't agree with them and I agree with most of the board that it shouldn't matter, but for whatever reason it does seem to be a hot-button issue for very large numbers of people. And I do think it's hurting Democrats whether anyone admits it or not, but at the same time the ugly truth is that if Democrats don't defend this very vulnerable population then no one will.

I'll also add that the worries from Trumpers and others about "men using women's restrooms" and being perverts is rich coming from folks who are mostly Religious Right conservatives. It seems as if there is at least one story or more a week about some preacher or televangelist molesting or abusing underage kids. I read somewhere a few months ago that since the Tennessee legislature passed a ban on public drag shows and passed a bunch of transgender restrictions there hasn't been a single case of someone from those groups abusing kids, but there have been plenty of stories in Tennessee of Evangelical preachers and others doing so. Instead of worrying about a tiny handful of transgenders competing in women's sports and who is using women's restrooms, social conservatives ought to be making sure that their ministers and other church officials aren't abusing underage and vulnerable people in their congregation.
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Someone has to stand up for minorities.

The reason it's a big issue is 100% because of trump.

He sold so many lies that his cult believes you can catch the gay, that trans people are 20% of the population, that every perv wants to dress as a woman and go in the restroom looking for a victim, that trans women are taking over women's sports even though there aren't enough numbers to form a league in the US.

these constant lies are the cause.

That combined with the motto of repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth and here we are.
 
UNCatTech said:
Someone has to stand up for minorities.

The reason it's a big issue is 100% because of trump.

He sold so many lies that his cult believes you can catch the gay, that trans people are 20% of the population, that every perv wants to dress as a woman and go in the restroom looking for a victim, that trans women are taking over women's sports even though there aren't enough numbers to form a league in the US.

these constant lies are the cause.

That combined with the motto of repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth and here we are.
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All true, but the part about conservatives vastly exaggerating the numbers of transgenders (and LGBTQ people generally), as well as minorities like blacks is absolutely true. From listening to Trumpers the percentage of blacks in our population is at least twice what it actually is, the numbers of immigrants is probably two or three times what it actually is, and the percentage of LGBTQ people is probably a quarter to a third of the population, These people are paranoid and convinced that they are simply surrounded by enemies. And that fear and paranoia is used as a major reason for why they have to support people like Trump and violate constitutional norms and do terrible things and all the rest - they and their way of life is under siege and so going to any extreme to save it is justified, even it means subverting our democracy and stripping other people of their rights and causing enormous suffering and so on. They really have convinced themselves that their survival is at stake, and so it's either "them or us." And so here we are.
 
Mulberry Heel said:
All true, but the part about conservatives vastly exaggerating the numbers of transgenders (and LGBTQ people generally), as well as minorities like blacks is absolutely true. From listening to Trumpers the percentage of blacks in our population is at least twice what it actually is, the numbers of immigrants is probably two or three times what it actually is, and the percentage of LGBTQ people is probably a quarter to a third of the population, These people are paranoid and convinced that they are simply surrounded by enemies. And that fear and paranoia is used as a major reason for why they have to support people like Trump and violate constitutional norms and do terrible things and all the rest - they and their way of life is under siege and so going to any extreme to save it is justified, even it means subverting our democracy and stripping other people of their rights and causing enormous suffering and so on. They really have convinced themselves that their survival is at stake, and so it's either "them or us." And so here we are.
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I was listening to an interview today with the former Consumer Finance Protection Bureau guy Richard Cordray some other cat and Norbert Michel and it was the Norbert guy's intention to say that the CFPB wasn't needed and only 10k out of 12 million users complained about payday loans so the CFPB shouldn't have done it? Said fraud is already covered by other agencies. So anyway Norbert is definitely a Norbert and Richard spanked him with the Wells Fargo Bank fake accounts bonus work.
Good listen.
(Really shouldn't be on this thread but it was interesting to see the way the the argument about numbers vs. morally correct actions are co-opted by these folks.)
www.wbur.org

The legacy of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau

Since its creation 14 years ago the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau has used its powers to return billions of dollars to defrauded consumers. Now the Trump administration wants to close it. What the CFPB has meant for consumer protection in the U.S.
www.wbur.org www.wbur.org
 
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