RFK jr to announce ban on all vaccines until he understands what they are

[ChapelHillSooner]

I think the reason plenty of folks are downplaying Trump is a little about a boy crying wolf. We were all around the first time when every Trump policy position or appointment was just the first step to fascism. And then it didn't happen. The Trump/Biden transition certainly wasn't peaceful but it was a transition. We didn't have all the worst case scenarios people were dreaming about and now that those same worst case scenarios are being repeated, folks are ignoring them.

Trump’s appointment as FBI director has in the past made statements that he will go after those who were involved in QAnon crimes - a completely fabricated conspiracy theory about Democrats eating babies.

I don’t know what to say if that doesn’t give you pause or make you think this second term is going to be a real mess.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

Trump’s appointment as FBI director has in the past made statements that he will go after those who were involved in QAnon crimes - a completely fabricated conspiracy theory about Democrats eating babies.

I don’t know what to say if that doesn’t give you pause or make you think this second term is going to be a real mess.

I thought the first term was going to be a mess based on all the people he hired and the left's collective freak out on about half of them. The first term wasn't some shining example of good government but it also wasn't the end of democracy.

 

[finesse]

I thought the first term was going to be a mess based on all the people he hired and the left's collective freak out. The first term wasn't some shiny example of good government but it also wasn't the end of democracy.

Now look at the people around him this time and last time. It's okay to be honest with yourself. Yeah, you should be scared. There's no adults involved.

 

[farce©]

You’re trying to reason with a recreational contrarian.

 

[sringwal]

You’re trying to reason with a recreational contrarian.

The Recreational Contrarians would have been a great name for a 90s alt-band.

 

[lawtig02]

I thought the first term was going to be a mess based on all the people he hired and the left's collective freak out on about half of them. The first term wasn't some shining example of good government but it also wasn't the end of democracy.

Yeah, let's just spot check a few of these.

SecDef:
Trump 1 - Mattis, then Esper
Trump 2 - Hegseth

FBI Director:
Trump 1 - Comey, then Wray
Trump 2 - Patel

DNI:
Trump 1 - Coats, then Ratcliffe
Trump 2 - Gabbard

HHS:
Trump 1 - Price
Trump 2 - RFK

I won't even list AG because we fortunately avoided the Gaetz clusterfuck, and while Bondi isn't great, she's at least reasonably qualified for the job.

The point is, this is NOT the first term. Trump told us repeatedly it would not be the first term all over again, and everything he's done since the election has confirmed that. We're in a whole new world of kleptocracy and loyalty to person over country now.

 

[finesse]

You’re trying to reason with a recreational contrarian.

He's just a billboard. That wasn't for him. The attention to his ridiculous assertions was.

 

[ChileG]

I thought the first term was going to be a mess based on all the people he hired and the left's collective freak out on about half of them. The first term wasn't some shining example of good government but it also wasn't the end of democracy.

I agree. He only tried his absolute best to end democracy, he just wasn’t able to do it.
Does trying to end democracy count for anything, or do you have to succeed in illegally overturning a free and fair election before we find fault?

 

[gtyellowjacket]

I agree. He only tried his absolute best to end democracy, he just wasn’t able to do it.
Does trying to end democracy count for anything, or do you have to succeed in illegally overturning a free and fair election before we find fault?

Don't you think the President of the United States could have done more to end democracy?

Certainly other presidents of Democracies have done quite a bit more with varying degrees of success. I don't think Trump tried his very best because despite the chicken little statements from the Democrats, he didn't want to end Democracy.

And don't think Democrats are special. We heard some of the same democracy is in danger from Republicans when Obama was in the top job. It's nonsense.

 

[ChileG]

Don't you think the President of the United States could have done more to end democracy?

Certainly other presidents of Democracies have done quite a bit more with varying degrees of success. I don't think Trump tried his very best because despite the chicken little statements from the Democrats, he didn't want to end Democracy.

And don't think Democrats are special. We heard some of the same democracy is in danger from Republicans when Obama was in the top job. It's nonsense.

Okay, let me put it another way that perhaps you can agree with…
Trump did everything he could to overturn a free and fair election. If he had succeeded it would have done tremendous if not irreparable damage to our democracy.

 

[4thgenheel]

I thought the first term was going to be a mess based on all the people he hired and the left's collective freak out on about half of them. The first term wasn't some shining example of good government but it also wasn't the end of democracy.

jfc, dude.

the fact that "the end of democracy" (barely) didn't occur, so its all fine and dandy to you is such a laughably low bar. its just shameless nonsense.

and i know that this has been explained to you on this board 38954329 times over the last several months, but the people staffing his first administration were levels higher in quality than the army of unqualified, rogue, criminal loyalists that he's appointing this go-round.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

Okay, let me put it another way that perhaps you can agree with…
Trump did everything he could to overturn a free and fair election. If he had succeeded it would have done tremendous if not irreparable damage to our democracy.

He really didn't do everything he could to overturn a free and fair election. Think about it a different way. If you were the president of the United States, what things might you have tried to end a fair election?

For me, I might have arrested opposition officials or declared martial law and not allowed any certification vote to take place. If I had all the powers of the president of the United States at my fingertips, I certainly wouldn't use some covert code to rally a bunch of civilians to maybe somehow, some way delay a certification vote.

 

[ChileG]

He really didn't do everything he could to overturn a free and fair election. Think about it a different way. If you were the president of the United States, what things might you have tried to end a fair election?

For me, I might have arrested opposition officials or declared martial law and not allowed any certification vote to take place. If I had all the powers of the president of the United States at my fingertips, I certainly wouldn't use some covert code to rally a bunch of civilians to maybe somehow, some way delay a certification vote.

So you agree that Trump did in fact try through multiple avenues to overturn a free and fair election.
I mean, to me this is really, really bad. And certainly fits the bill of the “chicken littles” who warned us that he would not cede power willingly (as in, the way every other president has done in our history).
I mean, maybe that doesn’t mean that much to you, but what Trump did after the 2020 election was worse than anything I imagined he might do. And that he didn’t do “everything in his power” to stop democracy doesn’t mean he isn’t a danger to it (in my opinion).

Edit: and this doesn’t even touch upon his illegal scheme to have Zelenskyy fabricate evidence against Biden so he could win the election.
Or his wish to have protestors shot, which would have been another way to harm our democracy.
I’m sure I am forgetting others.
To compare democrats who warned us about Trump versus Republicans who warned us about Obama is a tremendous reach (imo).

 

[BlooVooDoo]

He really didn't do everything he could to overturn a free and fair election. Think about it a different way. If you were the president of the United States, what things might you have tried to end a fair election?

For me, I might have arrested opposition officials or declared martial law and not allowed any certification vote to take place. If I had all the powers of the president of the United States at my fingertips, I certainly wouldn't use some covert code to rally a bunch of civilians to maybe somehow, some way delay a certification vote.

He may well have considered or even discussed these possibilities but knew he couldn’t get others to play along with it.

 

[4thgenheel]

He really didn't do everything he could to overturn a free and fair election. Think about it a different way. If you were the president of the United States, what things might you have tried to end a fair election?

For me, I might have arrested opposition officials or declared martial law and not allowed any certification vote to take place. If I had all the powers of the president of the United States at my fingertips, I certainly wouldn't use some covert code to rally a bunch of civilians to maybe somehow, some way delay a certification vote.

again, this has been explained to you repeatedly.

he didn't have enough support amongst his own admin / party to go around attempting to extrajudicially arrest opposition officials or declare martial law. even his dumb ass understood that taking those really extreme and illegal steps likely would've resulted in his own arrest

but he likely will have the support he needs this time with his admin 100% staffed by loyalists, the GOP even more in lockstep with his every whim than ever before and a supreme court that gave him immunity to do whatever he wants.

 

[hedge]

He really didn't do everything he could to overturn a free and fair election. Think about it a different way. If you were the president of the United States, what things might you have tried to end a fair election?

Nobody said he was bright, just craven and mendacious..

 

[gtyellowjacket]

He may well have considered or even discussed these possibilities but knew he couldn’t get others to play along with it.

Sure. Anything's possible.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

Nobody said he was bright, just craven and mendacious..

So he was dumb 4 years ago but now he is crafty enough to overturn our democracy? I just can't see how this time is going to be all that different.

I'm predicting multiple gaffs making us the laughingstock of the world again, a natural disaster response that he whiffs, and one signature achievement that he gets done for his biggest donors, probably tariffs. I'm also predicting 4 years of talking heads and keyboard warriors claiming the sky is falling every time he makes a large or small mistake, a really good night for Democrats in 2 years, and a transition of power in 4 years, probably to a Democrat.

 

[Calheel]

So he was dumb 4 years ago but now he is crafty enough to overturn our democracy? I just can't see how this time is going to be all that different.

I'm predicting multiple gaffs making us the laughingstock of the world again, a natural disaster response that he whiffs, and one signature achievement that he gets done for his biggest donors, probably tariffs. I'm also predicting 4 years of talking heads and keyboard warriors claiming the sky is falling every time he makes a large or small mistake, a really good night for Democrats in 2 years, and a transition of power in 4 years, probably to a Democrat.

You are probably right. It is the same argument that HeelYeah makes.

But the downside of you being wrong is much, much worse than the downside of the board majority being wrong.

 

[roostra]

So he was dumb 4 years ago but now he is crafty enough to overturn our democracy? I just can't see how this time is going to be all that different.

I'm predicting multiple gaffs making us the laughingstock of the world again, a natural disaster response that he whiffs, and one signature achievement that he gets done for his biggest donors, probably tariffs. I'm also predicting 4 years of talking heads and keyboard warriors claiming the sky is falling every time he makes a large or small mistake, a really good night for Democrats in 2 years, and a transition of power in 4 years, probably to a Democrat.

He has always been crafty - that is not mutually exclusive with not being very intelligent.

There is clear evidence out there that there was substantial action taken in the first administration to provide guardrails against his worst impulses by people with the power to do just that.

There is also clear evidence that he acknowledges that happened and will be explicitly appointing people who won't take on that role.

Now I cannot say what he will try to do and whether he will succeed in doing those things, but it I think it is indisputable that there will be substantially fewer checks on his worst impulses and the risks of him doing something catastrophically bad for the county will be substantially higher.

The question is how much risk are you comfortable with? Does a 2% chance that he could do something that substantially impairs our democracy allow you to sleep at night? 6%? 8%? 15%? Events with enormous consequences have to be taken seriously even if their relative risk is on the low side.