UNC ONLY BASKETBALL 2024-25 SEASON

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An assistant for a decade at the program under the tutelage under the guy you are taking over for is plenty.

Predicting success is not an exact science.

I’m not saying that Hubert is the guy but there’s no guarantee that the next coach will be either.

If you’re going to fire a lifer you better have one helluva a plan to replace him.
most of the coaches who land a top 5 job in the sport have more experience than one stint as an assistant.

most of the coaches who get a high major job period have more experience than one stint as an assistant.
 
I gotta say that the idea that Roy Williams didn't pay his dues is utterly ridiculous. I know snoop is only saying what he heard others saying, but those people should be ignored. The man sold calendars door to door to make ends meet just so he could learn under Dean Smith. He took over a KU program with major sanctions against them, so it wasn't like the program was in a great spot when he took over. A big reason KU has remained a blue blood is Roy Williams, if they made a wrong hire back then it may be a different story.
I think once you dig into Roy’s story, he did pay his dues. He volunteered as a student while at Carolina to take stats and worked Coach Smith’s camps just to be around the program. He was a high school coach in a number of sports (and the AD) for a number of years before coming back to Carolina. And then, as you noted, when he came back to Carolina, he had to sell calendars and deliver tapes just to make it financially as an assistant coach.

But if folks in coaching think all of that is enough to question if you've paid your dues just because you were only at blue bloods at the collegiate level, then how much more would they think of that regarding Hubert, who went from NBA player to TV analyst to Carolina assistant coach to Carolina HC?
 
I think once you dig into Roy’s story, he did pay his dues. He volunteered as a student while at Carolina to take stats and worked Coach Smith’s camps just to be around the program. He was a high school coach in a number of sports (and the AD) for a number of years before coming back to Carolina. And then, as you noted, when he came back to Carolina, he had to sell calendars and deliver tapes just to make it financially as an assistant coach.

But if folks in coaching think all of that is enough to question if you've paid your dues just because you were only at blue bloods at the collegiate level, then how much more would they think of that regarding Hubert, who went from NBA player to TV analyst to Carolina assistant coach to Carolina HC?
You seem to have conveniently left out that he got a throwaway scholarship and was told that he might not ever play by a Hall of Fame coach. If there's a silver spoon in his mouth, he dug the silver and forged the spoon.
 
I think once you dig into Roy’s story, he did pay his dues. He volunteered as a student while at Carolina to take stats and worked Coach Smith’s camps just to be around the program. He was a high school coach in a number of sports (and the AD) for a number of years before coming back to Carolina. And then, as you noted, when he came back to Carolina, he had to sell calendars and deliver tapes just to make it financially as an assistant coach.

But if folks in coaching think all of that is enough to question if you've paid your dues just because you were only at blue bloods at the collegiate level, then how much more would they think of that regarding Hubert, who went from NBA player to TV analyst to Carolina assistant coach to Carolina HC?
Personally I think the whole paid your dues conversation is pointless. Either you have the right guy or you don't regardless of how that person learned to be a coach. I was just pointing out that anyone who says that Roy didn't pay his dues is not worth listening to. I'm still waiting for the season to play out before I make up my mind on another year for Davis, not that anyone making the decision is listening to my opinion.
 
You seem to have conveniently left out that he got a throwaway scholarship and was told that he might not ever play by a Hall of Fame coach. If there's a silver spoon in his mouth, he dug the silver and forged the spoon.
That's not really relevant to Hubert's coaching career. His playing career, sure, but not his coaching career.
 
Most don’t have 12 years in the NBA either.
absolutely. or experience playing under all of dean smith, pat riley, don nelson, rick carlisle, larry brown, etc. etc.

i'm not trying to relitigate HD's hiring. i was all aboard.

but now that it clearly isn't working out, what do we do?
 
absolutely. or experience playing under all of dean smith, pat riley, don nelson, rick carlisle, larry brown, etc. etc.

i'm not trying to relitigate HD's hiring. i was all aboard.

but now that it clearly isn't working out, what do we do?
We’re less than a year removed from an ACC championship and Hubert being ACC COY.

Could it be argued that it’s not completely clear that it’s not working?
 
We’re less than a year removed from an ACC championship and Hubert being ACC COY.

Could it be argued that it’s not completely clear that it’s not working?
last year was good but it was the only full carolina standard season HD has had in his 4 at the helm. and it left a bit to be desired with the relative disappointments in the acct and s16 loss, but you could excuse those in light of the dook sweep and reg season title if the good stuff was the norm and not the outlier.

before last season was an epic dumpster fire of a season.

now this season we've got a team that on paper should be better than it is that is quite simply floundering.

1.5 good seasons out of 4 is just not even close to good enough at carolina.
 
After more than 17 years in coaching...I would probably come down on the side that from a sheer resume standpoint, HD had plenty of dues paid. The one missing component of his resume--and its a large one--is that he had never been a head coach of his own program. The move from assistant to head coach is one of the toughest moves in coaching; you go from whispering advice and giving input to being the decider on pretty much every decision with the program. And at a high profile job like UNC, that learning curve takes place under intense scrutiny. Always thought it was a mistake in the Doh process...and sadly think it has been a factor for HD to give this job to coaches who have little head coaching experience.
 
last year was good but it was the only full carolina standard season HD has had in his 4 at the helm. and it left a bit to be desired with the relative disappointments in the acct and s16 loss, but you could excuse those in light of the dook sweep and reg season title if the good stuff was the norm and not the outlier.

before last season was an epic dumpster fire of a season.

now this season we've got a team that on paper should be better than it is that is quite simply floundering.

1.5 good seasons out of 4 is just not even close to good enough at carolina.
2 out of 3 3/4.

The 2021 season was a huge success. Those who say it wasn’t are focusing way too much on the beginning and way too little on the end. You don’t judge seasons by sections you judge the entirety of them.
 
We’re less than a year removed from an ACC championship and Hubert being ACC COY.

Could it be argued that it’s not completely clear that it’s not working?
Hey, in 2001 we were ACC regular season champs (in a conference that also had the eventual national champion as well as a team that would be the following year’s national champion) and Doherty was AP national coach of the year.
 
Hey, in 2001 we were ACC regular season champs (in a conference that also had the eventual national champion as well as a team that would be the following year’s national champion) and Doherty was AP national coach of the year.
Sure, that year was pretty good on the surface. That wouldn’t be considered a bad season.

8-20 however….
 
We’re less than a year removed from an ACC championship and Hubert being ACC COY.

Could it be argued that it’s not completely clear that it’s not working?
Sure, it definitely could. So, with that in mind, share with us things you've seen this year from HD and/or staff that would be in praise of them. Adjustments on offense, defense, mind-set, etc....anything.
 
You don’t judge seasons by sections you judge the entirety of them.
I strongly believe that the best way to judge a season is in 2 parts...season and post-season.

And the reason I believe this is because there's a big difference in how an entire season is viewed under the following situations:

- Team A finished the regular season unranked, loses in the quarterfinals of its conference tournament, makes the NCAA tournament as a 10 seed but then goes on a surprise run to the Final 4.

- Team B finishes the regular season ranked 22, loses in the semifinals of its conference tournament, makes the NCAA tournament as a 7 seed and gets a couple of upsets to go to the Final 4.

- Team C finishes the regular season ranked 14, loses in the finals of its conference tournament in a close game, makes the NCAA tournament as a 4 seed and makes a strong run to the Final 4.

- Team D finishes the regular season ranked 3, wins its conference tournament as the 1 seed, makes that NCAA tournament as a 1 seed and makes the Final 4 by playing well in all of its NCAAT games.

Before we know which of these 4 teams make the finals and then which wins the NC, we've got four distinct levels of "success" here for teams that attained the same level of achievement in the NCAAT.

And that's only considering teams who make the Final 4, it's another to consider teams who have a really strong regular season but don't come through in the post-season.

Of course, if you win the national championship, very little else matters for that season. But for every other team each year besides that eventual champion, how well you did in the regular season vs how you did in the conference tournament vs how you did in the NCAA tournament makes a difference in how the "season" is perceived.
 
2 out of 3 3/4.

The 2021 season was a huge success. Those who say it wasn’t are focusing way too much on the beginning and way too little on the end. You don’t judge seasons by sections you judge the entirety of them.
you appear to be focusing on the good stuff at the end of 21/22 while ignoring the ugly beginning and part of the middle of that season. i thought we had to judge the entirety of a season?

judging 2021/2022 in its entirety would make it approximately halfway successful, as i said. which puts us at 1.5 successful "seasons" out of 4.

even if i give you 21/22 as an overall "successful" season, 2 out of 4 is still not remotely acceptable at carolina.
 
Sure, it definitely could. So, with that in mind, share with us things you've seen this year from HD and/or staff that would be in praise of them. Adjustments on offense, defense, mind-set, etc....anything.
Several second-half comebacks indicate effective coaching changes made at halftime.
Different starting line ups indicate adjustments.
Several good set plays out of timeouts throughout the season.
ETA: Creating and exploiting mismatched. NBA does it all the time. Other teams do it to Carolina. It's been good seeing Coach Davis do it, too.
 
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you appear to be focusing on the good stuff at the end of 21/22 while ignoring the ugly beginning and part of the middle of that season. i thought we had to judge the entirety of a season?

judging 2021/2022 in its entirety would make it approximately halfway successful, as i said. which puts us at 1.5 successful "seasons" out of 4.

even if i give you 21/22 as an overall "successful" season, 2 out of 4 is still not remotely acceptable at carolina.
The team finished 3rd in the ACC. That’s not “bad”.

Hell, the last 2 dook games made that season an epic success.

Giving that season a C is ridiculous.
 
Several second-half comebacks indicate effective coaching changes made at halftime.
Different starting line ups indicate adjustments.
Several good set plays out of timeouts throughout the season.
What lead to those comebacks is the question. Was it HD/staff making timely adjustments that helped the team? Was it the other teams letting their foot off of the pedal? Was it other things? (Also, consistently starting out slow is a negative on the staff. So, the second-half comebacks also highlight negatives.) It's good to see them change up the lineup. However, it's still head-scratching that they are continuing to start (and even play) RJ alongside Cadeau, and now bring Ian off the bench. For HD's offense, the best lineup they could go with would be RJ, Ian, Drake, JWit, JWash/VAL. If they want to start Cadeau, RJ, and Seth, then they should not be running the offensive sets they are. I do recall a few good plays coming out of timeouts, along with a few bad plays - on both ends of the court.

By the way, thank you for filling in for Bigs, and answering my questions. I'm looking forward to continuing seeing others point out the great things this staff has done this year.
 
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