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Where do we go from here?

  • Thread starter Thread starter rodoheel
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  • Politics 
EyeballKid said:
I understand all of that.

Rs have a 40-50 year head start. They’ve steadily built and expanded a vast propaganda network targeting working class uneducated people. They appeal to fear and anger, and it works.

This has gotten worse during the social media era, in part with the help of our political enemies like China and Russia. The propaganda network is expansive and incessant, pushed into Facebook and X and YouTube feeds.

There is little Ds can do in the short term to correct course and reach out to lower- and middle-class voters who have limited ability to discern fact from fiction. Media literacy is a huge conundrum.
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That's why I keep on about the need to reach some agreed standard of evidence. I'm a skeptic by nurture and nature and it takes time and multiple sources to find anything close to trustworthy. I rely a lot on the Economist, IBJ and the Pew Foundation as starting points. All seem a little more above the common fray. I absolutely refuse to wallow in social media, the blogosphere or the like. If I can't easily crosscheck time, I'm wasting my time.

Back to the point, if we can't agree on shared facts, we aren't getting anywhere on solving differences. It might be that their answer is that they expect total capitulation. I'm not sure what we could do. I don't think it's a misguided analogy to mention how many surrender treaties have laid the ground for the next war.
 
HeelYeah2012 said:
Fair enough. I believe that Trump was only prosecuted because he upsets the political machine like no other person in modern history. Not because he committed serious crimes.

Honest question for you. Since you believe someone who is guilty of a crime should be prosecuted no matter what. How do you feel about the tens of millions of illegal immigrants that broke the law entering our country? Does this put you on the side of being okay with mass deportation since they all broke the law?
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I think that's a fair question. I do think criminality should be prosecuted. I also think that would be an incredible self inflicted wound because we do need those.people
They completely fuel segments of our economy and they are treated as chattel by people who label them criminals but don't admit that they are necessary.

Our legal immigration system does not adequately supply labor. It just does not. I would propose that we institute a workable immigration system that is largely open to anyone willing to be productive and work. Do that and you have my blessing to shoot anyone crossing the border illegally without a trial or even apprehension.

I think the notion that we can "secure the border" without first fixing the legal path to immigration is the most wildly stupid idea I've ever heard. It's even dumber than "Just Say No" and that's saying something.
 
finesse said:
Now use the inside and think about how petty these are compared to killing women through outlawing abortion.

What is the real criminal rate for immigrants according to anybody who has any kind of legitimate statistics. What is the last wave of immigration that actually damaged America?

Will you ever differentiate immigration and drug trafficking which mostly are done by legals. After all, 5 lbs. of fentanyl is the the equivalent of 125-250 lbs of heroin. It's a lot easier to get it in with legals than facing the extra scrutiny.
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I mean, the entire post is filled with strawmen and blatant lies from the trump campaign. Undocumented folks commit fewer crimes and contribute more to safety nets than take - this is established in the data. The trump admin literally wrote the guidelines for trans care in prisons - lie. The student loan forgiveness plan was a variation of a bailout we give to corporations, or act as an economic stimulus - less individual debt in society is a well established means for stimulating an economy and the US was emerging from the worst economic downturn in decades. The gov gave out billions in eventually forgiven loans to businesses (small to multinational) during the pandemic. Etc etc.

Sad that folks can get taken for such a ride by thr likes of Murdoch ghouls, Steven Cheung, Steven Miller, and Trump himself.
 
wmheel1287 said:
I would propose that we institute a workable immigration system that is largely open to anyone willing to be productive and work. Do that and you have my blessing to shoot anyone crossing the border illegally without a trial or even apprehension.
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100% with you on sentence one. 100% not with you on sentence two.
 
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heelinhell said:
If the mass deportation is implemented ( I have my doubts) then I would support as part of the plan to identify any employer who hired said captured illegal immigrant who will be deported and charge that employer with a felony for each illegal hired with a punishment up to 20 years in prison.

This would deter employers from hiring illegals which in turn would deter illegals from entering our country to seek employment for a better way of life.
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I have long said this was the real solution to the problem, but the GOP want the illegal immigrants - 1 for the bogeyman and 2 for the cheap labor to enrich their overlords.

Farmers remain pro-GOP despite knowing that a crackdown would spell disaster on their livelihood, because they know the con and that the GOP will never act.

The wild card here is Trump who lies, misspeaks, lies to cover misspeaking, claims he actually did something, will do something he never intended just because he said he would do it, etc etc - i.e. he is old dynamite that is sweating nitroglycerin. The really dangerous thing is you have a pyromaniac in Stephen Miller ready to get his hands on the sticks.
 
E-Verify, which was created by a Democratic president, is just sitting right there if we want to use it. But I'm confident the small business owners who are overwhelmingly conservative have no desire to use it.
 
altmin said:
I have long said this was the real solution to the problem, but the GOP want the illegal immigrants - 1 for the bogeyman and 2 for the cheap labor to enrich their overlords.

Farmers remain pro-GOP despite knowing that a crackdown would spell disaster on their livelihood, because they know the con and that the GOP will never act.

The wild card here is Trump who lies, misspeaks, lies to cover misspeaking, claims he actually did something, will do something he never intended just because he said he would do it, etc etc - i.e. he is old dynamite that is sweating nitroglycerin. The really dangerous thing is you have a pyromaniac in Stephen Miller ready to get his hands on the sticks.
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The bogeyman factor is huge. Kinda wish the Dems would come out and call it for what it is, but I know that would just result in conservative backlash conflating it with wanting “open borders.”
 
heel17 said:
Then the way forward is to act and "code" as a moderate or as a "common man" and find an economic message / opponent to go after and ram it home every single day. Obama won on healthcare, opportunity, and jobs while seeming like a cool dude to the millions of voters who barely pay attention.

Honestly I think "weird" worked for a bit for the Dems as it highlighted to the 5-10% of persuadable swing state voters that RFK Jr, JD Vance, Trump, and their clown car is indeed a clown car. Run as the "normal" person who is fighting for the little guy of all stripes.
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And yet after about three weeks they just stopped using the weird term and ignored it. It does seem as if her campaign switched strategies after she was nominated. They should have continued to go at Trump directly, but instead they started courting Never Trump Republicans. Maybe the reason they stopped calling Trump Republicans weirdos was because they were afraid it would also turn off Republicans they were trying to recruit. And that was a huge mistake - I've read that after all of her campaign's vigorous efforts to win over Republicans who were sick of Trump, she got the exact same percentage of the GOP vote that Biden got - 6%. Hopefully this disaster will finally convince even the Democratic high command that appealing to Republicans isn't a winning strategy in the Age of Trump -they belong to him now, and they're not leaving the cult for anything or anyone else.
 
Mulberry Heel said:
And yet after about three weeks they just stopped using the weird term and ignored it. It does seem as if her campaign switched strategies after she was nominated. They should have continued to go at Trump directly, but instead they started courting Never Trump Republicans. Maybe the reason they stopped calling Trump Republicans weirdos was because they were afraid it would also turn off Republicans they were trying to recruit. And that was a huge mistake - I've read that after all of her campaign's vigorous efforts to win over Republicans who were sick of Trump, she got the exact same percentage of the GOP vote that Biden got - 6%. Hopefully this disaster will finally convince even the Democratic high command that appealing to Republicans isn't a winning strategy in the Age of Trump -they belong to him now, and they're not leaving the cult for anything or anyone else.
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YES
Somehow-I don't know how-get out the folks that voted for Obama and Ole Joe
 
I thought about starting a new thread for this but chose to go ahead and post it here. This is an excellent overview of how we got here and some ideas on where we go from here. Jon Stewart and HCR make some great points. Please take some time and watch this:

 
gregh1 said:
Lol, imagine her face reading those notes back to other repub strategists. "Okay, that's one attack vector from the Dems we can ignore... And there's probably many many more"
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They should’ve had a smear campaign with the slogan “Dumb and Dangerous” plastered with clips from his rallies and first term. So much content out there Dems could’ve used with a simple message to make it stick.
 
HandsonFire said:
Some of you might find this post interesting.


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Surrender gets you nothing. If his granddaddy saw what this guy dealt with compared to what he did, he'd beat the shit out of the ungrateful bastard. This asshole had a bunch of black people and some white make sacrifices so he can have a say and it's made a difference. It's not fixed and still needs work but that's for the young. Got no use for people like this.

You see it was the extremes on the right and left where neither have the patience to let our country grow. They think there's a destination instead of a process. One of those concepts encompasses the surprises of the future much better.
 
HandsonFire said:
Some of you might find this post interesting.


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I stopped reading after this sentence: "After discussing with my friends and community we came to the conclusion that Kamala was objectively better for society than Trump."

I'll probably finish later as I am interested, but that statement completely supports the point of voting against ones better interest that I don't understand.

If people know which policies are better for them, not participating hurts themselves as well as the rest of us.
 
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