Why Did Republicans Abandon Conservatism?

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UNCatTech said:
You're framing it like we're comparing pay differences between a CEO and some working at McDonald's.

Yes there are variables, but I've read articles comparing equal positions where women make less.
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Do female professional basketball players make less than male professional basketball players and is there an issue with that?

Also, why should women be punished for having and taking care of children?

So many other countries actually are prolife and it is evident in their policies toward new mothers, fathers, and children.
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Nobody is being punished. Everyone has to make their own life choices. Like I mentioned earlier, there are incredibly smart people in sales roles at the company I work for. They have been offered promotions and have turned them down. They turn them down because all that they want is an 8-4 job that, when it's done, they can walk out the door and not give it a second, third or fourth thought until the next morning. They are sacrificing promotions and higher pay for something that they want. No one is being punished.

My wife tried to go back to teaching a couple months after our first child was born. She would drop our daughter off at the babysitter's and then go cry in her car because she wanted to be the one to raise her. So she quit working to do what she truly wanted to do, which was raise our kids.

She wasn't being punished. She made a choice to stop working for what ended up being a decade.
 
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ZenMode said:
Do female professional basketball players make less than male professional basketball players and is there an issue with that?



Nobody is being punished. Everyone has to make their own life choices. Like I mentioned earlier, there are incredibly smart people in sales roles at the company I work for. They have been offered promotions and have turned them down. They turn them down because all that they want is an 8-4 job that, when it's done, they can walk out the door and not give it a second, third or fourth thought until the next morning. They are sacrificing promotions and higher pay for something that they want. No one is being punished.

My wife tried to go back to teaching a couple months after our first child was born. She would drop our daughter off at the babysitter's and then go cry in her car because she wanted to be the one to raise her. So she quit working to do what she truly wanted to do, which was raise our kids.

She wasn't being punished. She made a choice to stop working for what ended up being a decade.
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No, in this country the possibility of pregnancy is often held against women in hiring practices. That's punishment for being a woman. It isn't the same as choosing to stay home with a child.

And in regards to you're families choice, I commend you. My family made the same choice and it was well worth it.
 
UNCatTech said:
No, in this country the possibility of pregnancy is often held against women in hiring practices. That's punishment for being a woman. It isn't the same as choosing to stay home with a child.

And in regards to you're families choice, I commend you. My family made the same choice and it was well worth it.
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It may be held against women to, I'm guessing, a small degree.

There is another side to this. I work for a big worldwide company. In the last 10-ish years, in the relatively small circle of people I interact with there have been two times when women have gotten pregnant within 1-3 months of being hired and getting benefits.
 
ZenMode said:
Do female professional basketball players make less than male professional basketball players and is there an issue with that?



Nobody is being punished. Everyone has to make their own life choices. Like I mentioned earlier, there are incredibly smart people in sales roles at the company I work for. They have been offered promotions and have turned them down. They turn them down because all that they want is an 8-4 job that, when it's done, they can walk out the door and not give it a second, third or fourth thought until the next morning. They are sacrificing promotions and higher pay for something that they want. No one is being punished.

My wife tried to go back to teaching a couple months after our first child was born. She would drop our daughter off at the babysitter's and then go cry in her car because she wanted to be the one to raise her. So she quit working to do what she truly wanted to do, which was raise our kids.

She wasn't being punished. She made a choice to stop working for what ended up being a decade.
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The reason WNBA players make a lot less than NBA players is because of revenue generation. For every dollar the NBA generates, the WNBA generates less than 2 cents.
 
ZenMode said:
It may be held against women to, I'm guessing, a small degree.

There is another side to this. I work for a big worldwide company. In the last 10-ish years, in the relatively small circle of people I interact with there have been two times when women have gotten pregnant within 1-3 months of being hired and getting benefits.
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Or course, that was a diabolical plot because birth control never fails.
 
Patb78 said:
The reason WNBA players make a lot less than NBA players is because of revenue generation. For every dollar the NBA generates, the WNBA generates less than 2 cents.
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Exactly. So, while males and females may both technically have CFO and CEO jobs, that doesn't mean they're all paying the same or even should be paying the same because there's a huge gap difference between being the CEO of Amazon and the CEO of a random, barely known company.
 
ZenMode said:
Exactly. So, while males and females may both technically have CFO and CEO jobs, that doesn't mean they're all paying the same or even should be paying the same because there's a huge gap difference between being the CEO of Amazon and the CEO of a random, barely known company.
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It would apply to say being the General Manager of a division within a company. If a woman is GM for division one and a man for division two and the woman’s division does better she should make more. Maybe the base salaries are the same, but she would be better compensated when it comes to a yearly bonus for example.
 
ZenMode said:
Nice straw man. It could also be that benefits kick in when you are hired.
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Even if the woman took the job so she would have maternity coverage for a planned pregnancy, why would that be a bad thing? I’m not aware of many companies that would see it as a bad thing, as long the woman is qualified to do the job for which she was hired.
 
ZenMode said:
Nice straw man. It could also be that benefits kick in when you are hired.
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Of course it could. You're not ever going to find me defending the goodness and selflessness of human. I've known way to many of them. You are the one that made the blanket implication that those benefits were the main reason. That's stupid for so many reasons. However, it would be a waste of time to explain them to you because you don't care and don't listen. So, I went with the one liner.
 
finesse said:
Of course it could. You're not ever going to find me defending the goodness and selflessness of human. I've known way to many of them. You are the one that made the blanket implication that those benefits were the main reason. That's stupid for so many reasons. However, it would be a waste of time to explain them to you because you don't care and don't listen. So, I went with the one liner.
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I didn't say anything about "main reason". I'm fact, I did say that it only happened twice in a decade and a LOT of women have come and gone during that time.
 
Patb78 said:
It would apply to say being the General Manager of a division within a company. If a woman is GM for division one and a man for division two and the woman’s division does better she should make more. Maybe the base salaries are the same, but she would be better compensated when it comes to a yearly bonus for example.
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That would make sense, but bonuses aren't always performance based or, if they are, it could be based on a percentage of salary or any other variables.

I do know that the data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics is not diving anywhere close to that deep and I've never seen a broad study that gets that in depth.
 
Paine said:
Probably a smart thing for all of us to do. The worst thing we can do is wallow in a lack of hope, but it goes to the cynicism exchange we had a few days ago.

I come back to this: these reactionaries across the globe are playing with forces that they don’t fully understand. No one knows how this is going to play out in the end. It’s smart to be prepared for the worst, but it’s also important to realize that these people don’t have all the power, and they never will.

We’re never going to go back to a time of human history that predates the Enlightenment and revolution, as much as they want us to. The human spirit naturally rebels against this condition.
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The issue is timeline. Very few of us have a long enough time remaining on this planet to see this circle come back around. We will be talking about a 30-40 year rebuild of society after this mess comes to its likely violent conclusion.
 
lawtig02 said:
Even if the woman took the job so she would have maternity coverage for a planned pregnancy, why would that be a bad thing? I’m not aware of many companies that would see it as a bad thing, as long the woman is qualified to do the job for which she was hired.
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This guy has gone down the following path:

1. Gender pay gap isn't real because it's just simple division
2. OK, I guess the research controls for a few things, but the pay gap is actually about different roles
3. OK, I guess the research also accounts for different roles, but you can't prove that the pay gap is about discrimination
4. OK, I guess there is a lot of discrimination, but you see, two women at my company allegedly became pregnant after receiving benefits so I was right all along!#!1!1

Once again, he is who is -- he's derailed the thread. I participated in the derailing, which is my fault. Let's get it back.
 
I try not to put posters on ignore, but I did to Zen a couple of weeks ago when I finally got sick and tired of his schtick of deliberately taking threads off tangent while arguing in circles and being deliberately dense. He never argues in good faith, he's just a more sophisticated troll who loves playing devil's advocate and seeing how many threads he can derail. And to be honest I don't think I've missed a thing, as his arguments are rarely serious or have a point beyond trolling.
 
Paine said:
So what’s the implication of that? That you shouldn’t care or try because you won’t be here to see it? It has been a fairly recent phenomenon for people to expect a better standard of living in their lifetime, but that didn’t stop people fighting for it.
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No implication whatsoever of intent. Merely an explanation of the cynicism. For those of us caught in the middle of the maelstrom of the extremes of populism, it's sort of hard to see how our efforts do much good. Hell, for all I know, the things I've tried to do right over the last two decades have made it all worse, not better.

My issue with fighting for a better path is that I no longer see that there is a viable path nor the ways to get there. All I can do on a personal level is to treat others with respect and kindness while trying to prevent myself from being one of the casualties of this cultural war that so many seem intent to have.

As for this supposed "fairly recent phenomenon", I'm not so sure of that and even if true, those folks had progeny and family beyond their own years to worry about. I do not. End of the line for me, my family, etc. I've spent nearly as many years as you've been alive fighting like hell for other peoples' kids to have a better path. I'm tired of the battle because it's become clear to me that we lost the war.
 
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