2024 Presidential Election | ELECTION DAY 2024

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ZenMode said:
All 1/6 did was delay certification. There was no way in hell those yahoos were going to take over the government and put Trump back in power.
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All protestors that block interstates do is to delay arrival and traffic times.

There's no way in hell they would really cause any damage.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
Thanks to Pence. Vance has made it perfectly clear that he would do what Pence wouldn’t.
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If you have a vice president that is going to shirk his responsibilities, you don't need a riot.

The rioters were not going to cause a coup. Rioters can delay a lot of things if they are inclined to. They can delay certification for some amount of time, but eventually the authorities will come in and clear them out.
 
aGDevil2k said:
All protestors that block interstates do is to delay arrival and traffic times.

There's no way in hell they would really cause any damage.
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If you are going to compare blocking traffic to a few thousand unarmed rioters successfully overpowering the US government, I don't know where we go from here.

To be clear, I am not saying there weren't some very misguided people who thought that they could implement a coup. If you were there that day, you have pretty much exposes yourself as being misguided and generally not very intelligent. But there is simply no way that those people were going to forcefully put Trump back into power.
 
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ZenMode said:
If you are going to compare blocking traffic to a few thousand unarmed rioters successfully overpowering the US government, I don't know where we go from here.

To be clear, I am not saying there weren't some very misguided people who thought that they could implement a coup. If you were there that day, you have pretty much exposure yourself as being misdirected and generally not very intelligent. But there is simply no way that those people were going to forcefully put Trump back into power.
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The danger was not them "forcefully putting Trump back into power" against the might of the US government, it was them potentially intimidating Pence and/or Congress into nor certifying the election results leading to a whole bunch of chaos and likely Trump declaring himself to be President.
 
They didn’t need to “put Trump back in power.” They only needed to invalidate enough electors to throw the election to the House.

You seem pretty naive about the people that Trump will select to fill his next administration should it come to pass.
 
rodoheel said:
The danger was not them "forcefully putting Trump back into power" against the might of the US government, it was them potentially intimidating Pence and/or Congress into nor certifying the election results leading to a whole bunch of chaos and likely Trump declaring himself to be President.
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Sure, that's a legitimate fear in a lot of cases when protesters are involved. What if Congress caved on Brett kavanaugh because of protesters?

There are rules, laws and amendments in place to prevent bad people from causing trouble. There were more rules put in place because of Trump and the electors situation. I would assume there will be more rules, laws and amendments put into place to address future issues, also.
 
ZenMode said:
Sure, that's a legitimate fear in a lot of cases when protesters are involved. What if Congress caved on Brett kavanaugh because of protesters?

There are rules, laws and amendments in place to prevent bad people from causing trouble. There were more rules put in place because of Trump and the electors situation. I would assume there will be more rules, laws and amendments put into place to address future issues, also.
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Just stop. You aren't making any sense. The point was that the GOP was actively trying -- is actively trying -- to circumvent those rules, laws and amendments. You tell me: what if Pence did what Trump wanted and the Senate refused to acknowledge the electors from MI, GA, WI, etc.? Tell me how those rules, laws, and amendments would have stopped the coup.

If you don't think they will be able to get around the rules, fine. That's your view. It's unclear to me why you think your view here -- contradicted by most people who know what they are talking about -- is so rooted in fact that we should disregard attempts to get around those rules and just pretend like nothing bad can happen.
 
ZenMode said:
Sure, that's a legitimate fear in a lot of cases when protesters are involved. What if Congress caved on Brett kavanaugh because of protesters?

There are rules, laws and amendments in place to prevent bad people from causing trouble. There were more rules put in place because of Trump and the electors situation. I would assume there will be more rules, laws and amendments put into place to address future issues, also.
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The rules, laws, and amendments only work if people follow them. Our system depends on people working in good faith, following those rules, laws, and amendments to uphold democracy.

J6 and all the BS behind Trump’s fake voter fraud schemes and fake electors showed us that we’re very vulnerable to liars and bad actors. And Trump is a liar and a bad actor, in more than one way.
 
EyeballKid said:
The rules, laws, and amendments only work if people follow them. Our system depends on people working in good faith, following those rules, laws, and amendments to uphold democracy.

J6 and all the BS behind Trump’s fake voter fraud schemes and fake electors showed us that we’re very vulnerable to liars and bad actors. And Trump is a liar and a bad actor, in more than one way.
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Yep. Trump and his band of loons exposed areas of weakness in the process where we relied (too much) on norms and people operating in good faith. There were several laws passed to shore up those weaknesses and I'm sure there will be more. A VP could, even without a riot, decide not to certify an election, right? We need rules to account for that.

We need laws and rules to nullify public pressure like protesters/riots. That's why SCOTUS justices are appointed for life. We have the electoral college to protect us from bad actors getting into the presidency, though I think that's pretty much run its course.

All I'm saying is that the J6 rioters had no way to take over the government and force Trump back into office any more than rioters had a way to stop Kavanaugh becoming a justice.
 
ZenMode said:
Project 2025 is the brain child of lunatics. There's exactly zero chance Trump has read a single page of that document. He's already disavowed P2025.

Again, we're talking about what has a realistic chance of happening and a president ending/ruining the country is just not going to happen.

This type of hyperbole is par for the course during election time. Republicans said that if Biden won, they'd go door to door confiscating guns, outlaw home schooling, a national mask/vaccine mandate, free healthcare for illegal immigrants... the list was long.
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In 2016, a great many Republicans likely thought Trump meant what he said when he’d run the government like a business, de-regulation by the boatload, and “drain the swamp.”

After all, Trump was a “successful” businessman and “billionaire.” They thought he’d execute on what he said.

Most Republicans had little-or-no clue how incompetent and idiotic Trump is. They didn’t know how fraudulent he is.

For 2024, Republicans are banking on Trump winning AND being able to manipulate him into damn near everything they want. They are not going to wait for Trump to act. They will fill his Administration with Heritage-types.
 
ZenMode said:
You have to wonder why he made that change at the end of his first term and not the beginning.

Trump clearly likes blind loyalty and "yes" men. Beyond the people who Presidents currently appoint, how many "career officials with a political advisory role" do you think there are? I honestly have no idea, but I can't imagine there's a lot when you consider the hundreds of thousands of federal employees that exist.

The system is designed so Presidents can't be Kings. Trump can surround himself with all the yes men he wants and they can hatch all kinds of stupid ideas, but true country-ending change would have to come into existence via legislation. Legislation can only come from Congress.
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Trump’s a moron with the attention span of a gnat and the competence level of the Washington Generals.

If Trump is elected in November, the worry isn’t Trump. It’s the Heritage-types who will populate the Trump Administration and fascist billionaires such as Peter Theil.

They’re preparing this time to implement Project 2025. Remember, in 2016, Trump and his campaign didn’t have a transition plan. In 2024, the GOP has a transition plan - it’s Project 2025, drawn up by the Heritage Foundation and similar right-wing think tanks.
 
4thgenheel said:
YES!!!!! this is seriously needed.

we are all absolutely effing SICK AND TIRED of shelling out boatloads of money to banks/utilities/health insurers/etc/etc and not being able to speak with an actual human to get help when problems inevitably arise.

it goes well beyond poor customer service. it is predatory BS. they don't give a crap if whatever they're selling you doesn't work or isn't serving you properly.
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I’ve grown tired of saying, “Customer Service Rep” 15-20 times to the phone when calling a bank, credit card company, medical insurance, etc.
 
ZenMode said:
Yep. Trump and his band of loons exposed areas of weakness in the process where we relied (too much) on norms and people operating in good faith. There were several laws passed to shore up those weaknesses and I'm sure there will be more. A VP could, even without a riot, decide not to certify an election, right? We need rules to account for that.

We need laws and rules to nullify public pressure like protesters/riots. That's why SCOTUS justices are appointed for life. We have the electoral college to protect us from bad actors getting into the presidency, though I think that's pretty much run its course.

All I'm saying is that the J6 rioters had no way to take over the government and force Trump back into office any more than rioters had a way to stop Kavanaugh becoming a justice.
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Who was president on J6 2021? Do you get embarrassed by such stupidity? You should.
 
ZenMode said:
Project 2025 is the brain child of lunatics. There's exactly zero chance Trump has read a single page of that document. He's already disavowed P2025.

Again, we're talking about what has a realistic chance of happening and a president ending/ruining the country is just not going to happen.

This type of hyperbole is par for the course during election time. Republicans said that if Biden won, they'd go door to door confiscating guns, outlaw home schooling, a national mask/vaccine mandate, free healthcare for illegal immigrants... the list was long.
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Have you ever studied Weimar Germany and the rise of the Nazis?
 
ZenMode said:
Yep. Trump and his band of loons exposed areas of weakness in the process where we relied (too much) on norms and people operating in good faith. There were several laws passed to shore up those weaknesses and I'm sure there will be more. A VP could, even without a riot, decide not to certify an election, right? We need rules to account for that.

We need laws and rules to nullify public pressure like protesters/riots. That's why SCOTUS justices are appointed for life. We have the electoral college to protect us from bad actors getting into the presidency, though I think that's pretty much run its course.

All I'm saying is that the J6 rioters had no way to take over the government and force Trump back into office any more than rioters had a way to stop Kavanaugh becoming a justice.
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I think you're saying the protestors had no way to take over the government just by temporarily taking over one building where the government meets, which is perfectly true.

But, "No way to force Trump back in office" is more questionable. Some of them wanted to kill Pence before he certified. What if they'd succeeded at that task while Trump was still president?
 
Scientific Mapp said:
I think you're saying the protestors had no way to take over the government just by temporarily taking over one building where the government meets, which is perfectly true.

But, "No way to force Trump back in office" is more questionable. Some of them wanted to kill Pence before he certified. What if they'd succeeded at that task while Trump was still president?
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If they were able to get to Pence, then we have bigger issues.

But IF they got to him and killed him, then I'd assume that whoever is takes Pences place would certify, right?
 
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