GOP & Policies toward/treatment of Transgender & other LGBTQ Americans

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Ok Heelyeah, this video is an hour long, and Cody does get linked on this board quite a lot, and yes he is definitely quite progressive. That said, I really strongly encourage you to take an hour of your time this weekend to watch the video and just think about some of the points he makes. And maybe even read some of the studies he cites and critiques. You don’t have to agree with everything he says, but you would be a better person and citizen if you at least thought about some of these points.



I will give that a shot whenever I have some time. Thanks for sharing!
 
I think a lot of folks presume HeelYeah would prefer a lower suicide risk for trans kids'. But you see, he doesn't care, if caring requires him to accept their existence. I.e. HeelYeah prefers more adolescents die than be inconvenienced by language or the existence of people he doesn't understand. No amount of research will convince. The overwhelming benefit of calling a trans kid their preferred name and pronoun is too tall a task to save just a few lives.
Yea for some reason people keep talking to him like he gives a shit about anyone but himself. He’s the absolute worst person on this board
 
I don’t doubt that most kids are happier and less depressed when the grown ups in their life let them do whatever they want to do. Sometimes we have to do things that are in our kids’ long term best interests instead of prioritizing their short term happiness.

The data you cited about suicides is tragic, but it also doesn’t tell the full story. It doesn’t tell us what happens to the vast majority of people struggling with this confusion who don’t end up committing suicide, and whether the “average” life outcome of those folks is better for people whose parents gently nudged them back to a more traditional life instead of letting them decide at age 10 that they can change their identity.
I'm sorry, but what "average life outcome" could be worse than suicide? How could the worst possible "average life outcome" be worse than a child dying?

Keep in mind, this is completely nonmedical intervention. Most importantly, it is completely reversible. If the person changes their mind (if it is a "phase" as most dismissive folks assert that it is), they can go back to their old name and pronouns. If being called by the their preferred name and pronouns will literally save their life, I see that as an infinitesimally tiny price to pay, even if you think it is silly or ridiculous.
 
I’m somewhere between this executive order and where you likely are.

I absolutely don’t think a teacher should be forced to play along with someone’s gender confusion. Particularly in younger grades (at least up to age 14 or so, perhaps longer) where it’s borderline child abuse in my opinion for society to play along with a boy who thinks he is a girl or vice versa.

That said, you can be on one side on the actual social issue (boys are boys and girls are girls) and still say it’s overreach by the government to pull federal funding if a teacher doesn’t fall in line with that line of thinking. Hence why this EO will likely be found illegal, no?

So here’s where I fall, summed up:

1) Teacher shouldn’t have to play along and it’s borderline dangerous for them to play along, no matter how self-righteous they may feel by recognizing all 73 genders or whatever.

2) Government shouldn’t pull funding if teacher does decide to play along.
Yes, the order is definitely illegal. I'm glad you agree it goes too far. Though you don't seem as bothered by the fact that Trump is once against spending most of his time doing illegal things that waste a lot of time and money and cause a lot of unnecessary pain to regular Americans along the way.

I don't necessarily think teachers should be *forced* to use a student's correct pronouns. Probably a first amendment violation. I do think, as a practical matter, any teacher who wouldn't at least call a student the name they ask to be called is not a teacher I would want teaching my kids. In my experience, to be effective a teacher has to respect their students and treat them with compassion. And the kids need to trust them. I don't want or expect teachers to be heavily involved in dealing with any kid's gender issues unless both the kid and the teacher want it that way, but I can't imagine anything more cruel than forcing a teacher to alienate their own students and make the students uncomfortable in their classroom. Which is just what this executive order is designed to do.
 
I'm sorry, but what "average life outcome" could be worse than suicide? How could the worst possible "average life outcome" be worse than a child dying?

Keep in mind, this is completely nonmedical intervention. Most importantly, it is completely reversible. If the person changes their mind (if it is a "phase" as most dismissive folks assert that it is), they can go back to their old name and pronouns. If being called by the their preferred name and pronouns will literally save their life, I see that as an infinitesimally tiny price to pay, even if you think it is silly or ridiculous.
There is no worse outcome than suicide. But what if the suicide chance went from 1% to 2% when parents don’t play along (100% increase!) but the other 98-99% of the time the kid turns out to have a way better life? This example is just illustrative. Point is suicide stats alone don’t tell the full story without the context of what the outcomes are for the vast majority of people.

There’s also a middle ground where you can support your child and try to be there for them but still not accept the idea of being transgender. A good analogy in my mind is the same way you’d respond to someone you love being an alcoholic. I use this example because there is alcoholism in my extended family. To support an alcoholic you don’t just encourage them to drink just because that’s what they have an urge to do. You empathize with them, you support them however you can as they seek help, and you’re there as a trusted confidant for them. You don’t abandon them if they fall off the wagon a time or two. But the ultimate goal is to show you love them as they try and work through it all.
 
For the record, heel2012 equates being transgender with alcoholism and mental illness. There is no reason to engage with him on the issue because he quite simply lacks the empathy to see outside his own experiences. He’s told us as much, repeatedly.
There is no reason to engage with any of the few MAGAs on here. Just ignore them all.
 
There is no worse outcome than suicide. But what if the suicide chance went from 1% to 2% when parents don’t play along (100% increase!) but the other 98-99% of the time the kid turns out to have a way better life? This example is just illustrative. Point is suicide stats alone don’t tell the full story without the context of what the outcomes are for the vast majority of people.

There’s also a middle ground where you can support your child and try to be there for them but still not accept the idea of being transgender. A good analogy in my mind is the same way you’d respond to someone you love being an alcoholic. I use this example because there is alcoholism in my extended family. To support an alcoholic you don’t just encourage them to drink just because that’s what they have an urge to do. You empathize with them, you support them however you can as they seek help, and you’re there as a trusted confidant for them. You don’t abandon them if they fall off the wagon a time or two. But the ultimate goal is to show you love them as they try and work through it all.
You could say the same thing for gay conversion therapy.

Just think how much happier these gay kids would be if they could lead a straight life.
 
For the record, heel2012 equates being transgender with alcoholism and mental illness. There is no reason to engage with him on the issue because he quite simply lacks the empathy to see outside his own experiences. He’s told us as much, repeatedly.
It’s apparent he didn’t bother spending 3 minutes reading the brief medical overview I linked.
 
You could say the same thing for gay conversion therapy.

Just think how much happier these gay kids would be if they could lead a straight life.
I hear you, and I’m sure some people have made that argument. I might have made that argument myself when I was young & naive but I, like so many others, have grown to accept homosexuality without even a 2nd thought with the passage of time.

The major difference here is that being homosexual is literally based on something that we’ve all experienced: you like what you like, and you can’t help it much. Whether that’s talking about a romantic interest or a favorite food. Can’t really help what you like. Being transgender is a lot different than that because you are trying to convince someone that you literally *are* something you are not.

If someone says “I like spinach” who am I to tell them they are wrong? But if someone says “I literally am spinach” it’s ok for society to tell them they aren’t. Just my opinion and I don’t mind if you disagree.
 
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Hilariously, after decrying “indoctrination” it goes on to require “patriotic education” (much of which honestly looks focused on making Trump’s 250th anniversary celebration of the Declaration of Independence a focus of all kids — we had a lot of that for the Bicentennial back in 1976 and it was generally pretty fun, but not sure how much that was dictated by the POTUS, especially since there was no Dept of Education then).
 
Right out of the racist and bigoted playbook. They don't want to deal with reality and real history, or anyone that is outside of their straight white Christian bubble they want to live in. They are ignorant, ignorant creates fear, and fear creates racism and bigotry. Something is wrong with their souls. They want to live in ignorance, fear, and division instead of knowledge, unity and love.
 
I hear you, and I’m sure some people have made that argument. I might have made that argument myself when I was young & naive but I, like so many others, have grown to accept homosexuality without even a 2nd thought with the passage of time.

The major difference here is that being homosexual is literally based on something that we’ve all experienced: you like what you like, and you can’t help it much. Whether that’s talking about a romantic interest or a favorite food. Can’t really help what you like. Being transgender is a lot different than that because you are trying to convince someone that you literally *are* something you are not.

If someone says “I like spinach” who am I to tell them they are wrong? But if someone says “I literally am spinach” it’s ok for society to tell them they aren’t. Just my opinion and I don’t mind if you disagree.
What a weird way to rationalize your anti-trans discrimination. A person can no more control their gender identity than their sexual preference. I can assure you that if trans kids could snap a finger and become cis, almost every single one would jump at the opportunity. Being trans in America is pretty crappy because there are an awful lot of Heelyeah's out there. And yet, people are willing to endure that crappiness because the alternative is hating yourself and, very often, suicide.
 
The Trump admin press release on transgender military members is just shameful:

“Consistent with the military mission and longstanding DoD policy, expressing a false “gender identity” divergent from an individual’s sex cannot satisfy the rigorous standards necessary for military service. Beyond the hormonal and surgical medical interventions involved, adoption of a gender identity inconsistent with an individual’s sex conflicts with a soldier’s commitment to an honorable, truthful, and disciplined lifestyle, even in one’s personal life. A man’s assertion that he is a woman, and his requirement that others honor this falsehood, is not consistent with the humility and selflessness required of a service member.”

It’s not enough to simply refuse to provide gender-affirming care. No, we have to call every transgender person a lying, dishonorable sack of shit too. Don’t hold your breath waiting for @HeelYeah2012 and other self-proclaimed “moderates” who claimed they just wanted trans people left alone as long as they stay out of women’s sports to criticize this.
What a complete load of shit.

Good thing he wasn't in the military because we all know that he is not honorable, truthful, and lives and undisciplined lifestyle.
 
A person can no more control their gender identity than their sexual preference. I
Disagree. One is external to the self and is based on what someone likes. The other is trying to change the definition of self.

Not much sense in continuing the conversation when we disagree on this core point, but I do appreciate the back and forth.
 
Disagree. One is external to the self and is based on what someone likes. The other is trying to change the definition of self.

Not much sense in continuing the conversation when we disagree on this core point, but I do appreciate the back and forth.
So you disagree with the science. This isn’t a matter of opinion.
 
If someone says “I like spinach” who am I to tell them they are wrong? But if someone says “I literally am spinach” it’s ok for society to tell them they aren’t. Just my opinion and I don’t mind if you disagree.
Damn man, you were so close.

This is the most ridiculous comparison I've ever heard to a trans person.

You are correct, if someone says that they are spinach then tell them they are not (you still don't need the government to be involved). But if someone says that their mind doesn't agree with their body and everything they think and feel align with being the opposite sex that they were born, it isn't the same.
 
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